In game explanations of out of game mechanics

[DandD]

The magic in the magic item shows itself in the right time. Conveniently, this time is after a second battle, when a third group of monsters are attacking you. Sometimes, it's after you managed to roll down this rockfall that was nearly crushing you. Before that, you had to persuade a goblin tribe peacefully to let you pass.

Milestones are designated by the gamemaster.

 

[RandomCitizenX]

My third attempt to reply...Apparently I am having problems getting to EnWorld today.

It isn't that I am not understanding the mechanics, I am trying to understand how it is explained in game.

Does a character actually say, 'I know that I used my funky magic item in the last fight, and I am a little bit tired because of it, but if someone comes along and fights me again, I can use it a second time. Otherwise, I just am unable to use that magic item until tomorrow.'

I was refering to in game...It is easy to call a healing surge a second wind (not refering to the game mechanic), as people get those and feel them as well, but I don't think people get a fifth wind and can continue as if refreshed completely.

I know you as a DM can explain it, and your players will understand the mechanics as is written, but how do the characters see it.

This is why I was asking those who like immersive gaming, not just the 'the rule says it is so, there you go' type of gamer.

-wally

Considering that other than the Second Wind mechanic, healing surges can only be triggered by outside forces it really comes down to what is triggering it. If it is the healing word power you are actually getting rejuvinated by the cleric's god. If it is coming from the Inspiring word mechanic then the Warlords words of encouragement help you find the inner strength to carry on. As for the Second Wind mechanic itself I have been treating it as a completely out of character thing. The character just knows that they have hit a second wind and can get back into the fight, while the player decides when it is appropriate for that to happen.

 

[am181d]

Being at full hit points does not necessarily equal "free of injury". It just means "capable of functioning fine given the current level of injury." Remember that these are heroes, capable of extraordinary things. They may be all bloody and beat down, but they can still fight the fight.

 

[wally]

The magic in the magic item shows itself in the right time. Conveniently, this time is after a second battle, when a third group of monsters are attacking you. Sometimes, it's after you managed to roll down this rockfall that was nearly crushing you. Before that, you had to persuade a goblin tribe peacefully to let you pass.

Milestones are designated by the gamemaster.

So in game the characters just know that the item isn't usable until something special happens, it is the will of the gods? Is that it?

 

[wally]

Being at full hit points does not necessarily equal "free of injury". It just means "capable of functioning fine given the current level of injury." Remember that these are heroes, capable of extraordinary things. They may be all bloody and beat down, but they can still fight the fight.

Okay, but how do you explain magic item use that depends upon how many enounters or other milestones you reach in a given day? How do you explain a class ability that is usable only once per day, but you aren't slowed down or worn down or anything that might indicate that you physically aren't capable of doing so a second time?

Are you really describing a character with most of their hit points as bloody and beat down?

-wally

 

[Scribble]

Second wind I explain in the same way others have mentioned. The hero stands up... cracks his joints, and is good to go... Or a little better to go as the case may be.

Healing surges I explain again as the heroes not injured, but definitely worn, resting long enough to recouperate. I guess I'm one of teh haven't ever seen HPs as directly relating to physical damage taken.

It just seemed silly to be able to take umpteen arrows straight to the gut...

The magic item thing I feel is more a will thing... It takes a bit to force the power of the magic, but your willpower just gets stronger as you go.

In game I don't nessesarily see it as actually happening every 2 encounters, as I know my players don't automatically use the magic item everytime it recoups.

So in game, the item takes the amount of time between when the character uses it to restore, be that 2 encounters or 10. (Out of game it recharges in 2 encounters)

 

[Ander00]

Maybe I don't get the reference. Are you saying that in 4e, the healing surges are magical in nature, but they aren't unlimited because that would be unbalancing?

I was to understand that they were explained away as a 'second wind' (again not the mechanic just the idea), and that they were making hit points less about damage until you went below 0 and such. If so, then how would someone do this in 3e without any magic? In 4e, if you have the magical capability, can you not heal someone up, or did they take that away?

The healing surges themselves are not magical in nature, but magical effects may allow you to access them more efficiently or more frequently. To speed your recovery or improve it, beyond just catching a 'second wind', if you will. But even with magical help, one can only go so far before needing to take an extended rest. The tougher a character is, the more healing surges he has, the more those surges accomplish, and the more often he can catch a second wind, let the warlord inspire him to keep on fighting or benefit from a cleric's healing spells (though there are some that do not require the recipient to expend a healing surge, but those - like the daily Cure Light Wounds - are the exception).
Once the character is out of healing surges for the day, he resembles the McLane you saw at the end of those movies. Bruised and battered. Probably with some fight left in him, if need be, but in more serious risk of dying because he is now too exhausted to catch a 'second wind' and get back into the fight if things do not go exactly his way. Another few good hits, and this time he won't be getting up.


cheers

 

[Zaruthustran]

I don't try to explain game mechanics. For my friends and I, a 1:1 relationship between out-of-game mechanics and in-game effects just isn't required.

For us, it's simply okay that D&D is a game. We're there to hang out with friends and roleplay, and the framework of that fellowship--the mechanics--are followed, but not allowed to become obstacles to a good story.

For example, re: the "explanation" for per-encounter or daily abilities. Well, why doesn't James Bond simply headshot every single enemy with every bullet in every fight? Why doesn't Indiana Jones knock out every foe with a single bunch, or only use his whip or gun once per fight scene?

We accept these limits because it makes the game more fun. It's fun to pull out your daily, and have it be a big hit or a groan-inducing miss. It's fun to get knocked down, only to shake your head and get up again.

What I'm saying is we're all willing to accept the gameness of 4E, since it makes the actual play--the experience of rolling dice and sharing an imagined world with your friends--more enjoyable.

-z

PS: If one can just accept that unencumbered humans can move only six squares per move action, why can one not just accept that fighters can use Passing Attack once per encounter? For us, those two mechanics-induced limitations are considered exactly the same. Them's the rules, accept it, don't let it get in the way of having fun.

 

[wally]

For example, re: the "explanation" for per-encounter or daily abilities. Well, why doesn't James Bond simply headshot every single enemy with every bullet in every fight? Why doesn't Indiana Jones knock out every foe with a single bunch, or only use his whip or gun once per fight scene?

Well, your example has very easy examples within the scenes to explain why they don't do those things.

That is really what I am looking for is what examples people are using, and what I am getting a lot of is 'Second wind like John McClane' or as you put it 'since James Bond doesn't shoot everyone in the head, your character can't do his special move every time,' and while those are reasons, they aren't in game reasons.

I guess I need to say this again...I am not trying to have this thread be about why 4e is good or bad. I am trying to get an idea from those who like to role-play and have reasons why things happen within the game rather than have the fighter turn to the cleric and say, 'I guess the PHB says you can only do that one time per day,' be the answer.

I have heard (paraphrased):
I can come up with it in a given situation (I was looking for examples, but that's okay)
It is a second wind like when a character in the movies is wounded, but gets back into the fight
and I have heard many different reasons why healing surges can be easily explained

Maybe I should ask, have any of your players asked for any specific answer within the setting of the game as to why things don't work as often or only based upon situations? If so, what answers did you come up with?

If you play a game where those aren't needed or asked for, than this thread isn't really for you.

-wally

 

[Hypersmurf]

I guess I need to say this again...I am not trying to have this thread be about why 4e is good or bad. I am trying to get an idea from those who like to role-play and have reasons why things happen within the game rather than have the fighter turn to the cleric and say, 'I guess the PHB says you can only do that one time per day,' be the answer.

The explanation that works for me for, say, a martial daily, is the difference between the in-game explanation and the metagame explanation of 'using a daily'.

Let's take the Ranger ability to shoot two opponents with a single shot. Now, he can't just shoot any two opponents like that; he can only do it if they lie along certain trajectories.

The in-game explanation for using this daily power? The ranger has recognised that those two orcs are in the right positions within their squares, relative to each other, and takes the shot.

The metagame explanation for using this daily power? The player declares that those two orcs are in the right positions within their squares, relative to each other, for the ranger to take the shot.

If the player doesn't use the daily power, then the orcs aren't quite lined up right, and in-game, the ranger recognises that it's impossible to hit both and doesn't try.

If the player does use the daily power, then the orcs are lined up just right, and in-game, the ranger recognises that he has an opportunity to hit both.

Essentially, the player is being the Hand of Fate - he can create opportunities. The ranger doesn't have this luxury, but when the player creates those opportunities, the ranger can exploit them.

-Hyp.