Incomplete answers for the Complete Arcane

[Darthjaye]

Hey guys was wondering if anyone else has run into this problem. My group and I played this weekend and ran into a interesting discussion. It centers around rules proposed in the complete arcane. It says under their entry for Point Blank Shot, Ranged Spell Specialization, and Touch Spell Specialization that they add to a spells attack and/or damage. But then it says on page 85 that "all such spells deal damage as spells, not weapons, so Strength modifiers to damage and magical effects that increase weapon damage (such as the bard's inspire courage ability and the prayer spell) don't increase damage from a weaponlike spell."
Does this really gel with respects to effects from other spells or creature abilities. That is to ask for example if a Trogyldyte were to hit you with it's musk ability or a ghoul touch were to affect a spellcaster would he then take negative's to his damage with spells like Melf's Acid Arrow, Burning Hands, or any other similiar spells which have to target to do damage? I can see the minus to attack but would there be a minus to damage too?

 

[ARandomGod]

Hey guys was wondering if anyone else has run into this problem. My group and I played this weekend and ran into a interesting discussion. It centers around rules proposed in the complete arcane. It says under their entry for Point Blank Shot, Ranged Spell Specialization, and Touch Spell Specialization that they add to a spells attack and/or damage. But then it says on page 85 that "all such spells deal damage as spells, not weapons, so Strength modifiers to damage and magical effects that increase weapon damage (such as the bard's inspire courage ability and the prayer spell) don't increase damage from a weaponlike spell."
Does this really gel with respects to effects from other spells or creature abilities. That is to ask for example if a Trogyldyte were to hit you with it's musk ability or a ghoul touch were to affect a spellcaster would he then take negative's to his damage with spells like Melf's Acid Arrow, Burning Hands, or any other similiar spells which have to target to do damage? I can see the minus to attack but would there be a minus to damage too?

Hrmm... I don't see anyone else answering so I'll take a stab at it.
In general, touch spells don't to any physical touch damage, so while they'll take a penalty for strength (or bonus) to hit, they don't do damage from that touch, and therefore you don't get a bonus or penalty to damage.

Obviously a feat that gives a bonus would do so, as a feat mechanic...

Ranged attacks never have gotten a damage modifier from it's relevant ability.

So no, you wouldn't get any negatives to damage from the spells meantioned above, nor from spells such as shocking grasp (touch attack) or chill touch...

Melf's arrow you'd get a bonus or penalty due to your dex, as it's a ranged attack, but you wouldn't get any penalty for the attack itself. Burning hands doesn't even make an attack roll, and certainly wouldn't get a bonus or penalty.

Was that what you were asking? I'm not sure the question was entirely clear.

 

[ARandomGod]

Oh, yea... I know of point blank, but describe further Ranged Spell Specialization, and Touch Spell Specialization. I can't really make comments on those and their implications as I'm not really familiar with them.

 

[DreamChaser]

I guess I'm not understanding the contradiction. There are some feats that help to increase the damage of spells and in the text it notes that feats that increase weapon damage do not work on spells, even though feats that increase your attack modifier do.

It seems to go like this:
if it increases your chance to hit, (melee attack, ranged attack) and the spell you cast uses that type of attack, then the feat helps you.

if it increases damage, then it has to be a spell-specific (rather than weapon-specific) feat to increase the damage.

DC