Infuse Issues.

[Kemrain]

I was looking over EoMr for a friend and I came to the Infuse lists. Nice lists, for the most part, and Drain is teh Roxxorz. Then, I came across Infuse [Alignment], and nearly cried. These lists have so much potential, and yet all they do is temporarily give you the alignment subtype. This is horrible!

The Infuse [Element] spells have fairly predictable results, they increase stats, for the most part. The four odd elements, Nature, Time, Space, and Force, do some cool wierd things, too. But the Alignments are left out in the cold. This should be remedied!

Let us all brainstorm a little, and come up with some decent effects for these lists, to put them more along the lines of Infuse Space or Infuse Time. Infuse Alignment shoud do cool things.

- Kemrain the Aligned.

- Kemrain the [Evil]

 

[astriemer]

I was looking over EoMr for a friend and I came to the Infuse lists. Nice lists, for the most part, and Drain is teh Roxxorz. Then, I came across Infuse [Alignment], and nearly cried. These lists have so much potential, and yet all they do is temporarily give you the alignment subtype. This is horrible!

The Infuse [Element] spells have fairly predictable results, they increase stats, for the most part. The four odd elements, Nature, Time, Space, and Force, do some cool wierd things, too. But the Alignments are left out in the cold. This should be remedied!

Let us all brainstorm a little, and come up with some decent effects for these lists, to put them more along the lines of Infuse Space or Infuse Time. Infuse Alignment shoud do cool things.

- Kemrain the Aligned.

- Kemrain the [Evil]

Off the top of my head..

Well, RW indicated in a previous post that they are also used to create Holy/Unholy/Anarchic/Axiomatic waters etc. (as there is no Create [Alignment] list.

Does that mean that it might also be used to create Holy/etc. weapons ala elemental weapon damage from Create?

If you still use the traditional Turn Undead rules, they could be used to consecrate/desecrate an area.

I'll think up some more when I've got some books handy.

 

[Verequus]

The suggestion, that you can get feats and class features through Infuse, is something, what would work on every list, so it isn't really pepping up the [Alignment] lists. Otherwise I'd like to mention, that there is Create [Alignment], introduced in the official errata, which means that they are included in the upcoming compilation (whenever the release of it is). The traditional Turn Undead rules aren't great - using the Charm mechanics all of its problems vanish, so I'd like to leave them out of EoMR.

 

[Kemrain]

Like RM said, the Create Alignment lists have been added in with the Errata. You can create objects out of Good and make Holy Swords deal Good damage. I'd imagine that Holy Water would be a Create Good 1/Gen 0 charged item that dealt 1d6 Good damage. But I'm not sure.

This still leaves Infuse and Drain Alignment as the weakest spell lists. RM's idea of Infuse Alignment granting feats is an interesting one, but figuring out which feat is tied to what alignment would be difficult at best, impossible at worst.

I just want to see the spell lists do somethign other than make somethign radiate an alignment and be targeted by the appropriate alignment spells. I just have no idea what would be appropriate.

- Kemrain the Infused.

 

[Verequus]

I would never go and tie feats to elements - that is simple impossible for things like Power Attack. Instead either every list can create every feat or only obviously element/alignment-tied feats have to use a special list.

 

[astriemer]

Sorry, forgot about the errata. (I should know better than to answer questions when I don't have my books handy )There are a number of feats that depend on the traditional turning rules, so we keep the standard turning rules in our campaign. For anyone else that might be continuing to use them, the suggestion is valid.

Here are a couple more ideas though...

Infuse, because it changes your subtype, should let you overcome damage reduction for some creatures.

There is a spell in the core rules that changes any creature summoned into an area to match the alignment of the caster of the spell. Perhaps Infuse [alignment] in an area could create a similar effect.

Alter Summon (2 MP) You can infuse an area with an alignment. Any creatures summoned into the area have the alignment specified. Summoned creatures with the loyal enhancement, if their new alignment opposes the summoner are not considered loyal.

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Perhaps a strong enough Infuse could actually change the creature's alignment rather than just cause them to acquire the subtype.

Change Alignment (8 MP) You can infuse a creature with a strong enough alignment that they actually acquire the alignment. The creature's alignment is changed to the desired alignment for the duration of the effect.

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Perhaps you could use the Infuse the change a damage type to "divine" damage.

Infuse Damage (2 MP) You can apply this enhancement to any damage dealing effect. Half of the damage becomes "divine" damage that cannot be resisted with Abjure spell lists.

Greater Infuse Damage (6 MP) You can apply this enhancement to any damage dealing effect. All of the damage becomes "divine" damage that cannot be resisted with Abjure spell lists.

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Perhaps you could use it to create the effect that prevents outsiders from getting saves versus some spells.

Outsider Bane (8 MP) You can apply this enhancement to any other effect that allows a saving throw. Against outsiders, with a subtype opposed by the alignment that you infuse the spell with, they recieve no save versus the effect, they still get their spell resistance if any. You cannot affect any outsider with this enhancement if they have more Hit Dice than you have caster levels.

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Also, I was just looking over some old posts and ran across the following
Q. Originally posted by Kemrain: For now, I'll just follow the rules for Create Element and apply them to Create Alignment. In LA, are you going to throw in rules similar to the negitive levels bestowed upon a non-good wielder of a Good item? Would a Good sword deal damage to, say, a Demon, simply by touching it to them, or must you cut? I am eagerly awaiting the release of Lyceian Arcana, and busy testing EoMr to it's limits. Hope something constructive comes from me asking these crazy questions (Like Create Alignment spells). Thanks again.
A. Hm. Negative levels from wielding aligned objects. Hmm. I wish you'd mentioned that two months ago. It would've been a nice thing to let Infuse [Alignment] do. I'll think on it. Thanks.

So...maybe something like
Negative Alignment Conflict (5 MP) You infuse an object such that anyone of an opposing alignment takes one negative level so long as they are touching the item. This enhancement can be purchased multiple times and stacks.

Also in response to a question about monster vulnerabilities RW added " For instance, with the newly minted Infuse Good spell list, you can create the lovely blessed crossbow bolt that will slay a Rakshasa" to say that you could use some leaway to have a EoM effect do something that isn't explicitly written into the rules if the effect is similar to a core rule effect.


Just some thoughts.