D&D 4E Initiative in 4E

[psionotic]

It's already broken up into smaller chunks - each person's turn.

Weapon speeds are a nuisance. Spell casting times are trivially easy to handle - you start casting on your initiative (say, 18); if your spell takes 5 segments (or ticks, or universal time units) to cast that just means you resolve on a 13; any foe with an initiative of 17-13 can potentially interrupt you. Next round, you act again on 18.

Lanefan

Hrm, it seems like such a system would rule out counterspelling, though, wouldn't it? Unless all counterspells and dispels take 0 time to cast, but that doesn't make much sense in a system where spells have segment lengths, generally (and then, how would one distrupt a counterspell or a dispel?)

 

[Acid_crash]

Put me down as another in favor of Ticks... plus, in Exalted, one thing not mentioned is that Movement is a 0 Tick action, and people can move on any tick, not just the one they can take an action in.

this is pretty sweet.

 

[AllisterH]

My problem is that weapon speeds make no sense since the main characteristic between weapons is the length of the weapon.

 

[pawsplay]

One thing I'd like to see is the return of a little rule from (gasp!) 2e:

Creatures get an initiative modifier based on size (smaller creatures get a bonus, larger creatures get a penalty). The AC modifiers should suffice.

Really? I would do that the other way.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I'd like to see tick-based combat

Interesting discussion. I first came across tick-based combat in Chaosiums' 'Ringworld' RPG (they called it 'pulses' then IIRC). It seemed like an interesting idea in theory but was very cumbersome in practice.

It is interesting to hear that the idea resurfaced again, and in a way which was usable in exalted (and for some people's D&D too).

Henry mentions SWSE initiative as a skill - one of the things that I think is great about that idea is that even if you are not trained in initiative, SWSE skills all increase as you go up in level, so more experienced people are better at getting initiative. I think this is a very good thing. Conan OGL did something similar by adding Reflex save on to initiative rolls.

I do hope that in 4e higher level characters are likely to have intrinsically better initiatives through some mechanism or another. It will be interesting to see what comes up in this respect.

Regards

 

[Jhaelen]

Interesting discussion. I first came across tick-based combat in Chaosiums' 'Ringworld' RPG (they called it 'pulses' then IIRC). It seemed like an interesting idea in theory but was very cumbersome in practice.

It is interesting to hear that the idea resurfaced again, and in a way which was usable in exalted (and for some people's D&D too).

Yup, interesting!
The only place I've ever seen anything similar was in the 'Demon's Winter' CRPG. Worked pretty well but I'm not sure I'd like to see it in a pen & paper rpg.

I also think it would be too big a change from the way it's been done in previous editions. The gameplay previews seem to indicate it's similar to how it was in 3E.

 

[Baby Samurai]

Judging from the Spined Devil stats I'm thinking that Init works juss like in Saga (Skill = half level + Dex modifier + 5 if trained).

 

[Exen Trik]

Meh, it's all to complicated for my tastes. Just as long as the initiative system allows for and encourages fairly realistic combat tactics, it's good enough for me. More options for reactions and simultaneity action is a good thing though, and we may well see those in 4e.


But still, you guys got me thinking, so here's an idea that might help smooth things out without having to reinvent the initiative wheel:

Continuous move actions: You still act on your turn, and you decide to move on your turn, but you need not spend all your available distance at once. For example, on your turn you cast a spell and take a move action. Your move action gives you 30ft (or 6 steps?) and you can decide to take all that and dash back into a safer area. Or you can move half that, and wait to use the rest of your movement, or just wait to use any of it. You can use the rest of your movement at any point until your next action, even if you delay.

For example, if an enemy fighter comes charging at you from a distance, and can only move as far as to your position and 10ft more then you can take 15ft and move back enough that he can't reach you. The fighter moves his maximum distance and stops just short of his target, and throws you a nasty look.

If the fighter were already close you wouldn't be able to avoid the attack, but you could still react defensively. Moving close to an ally could force the assailant to risk provoking an attack of opportunity, or forgo his action. Even if the ally were too far for that, if he had some movement available he could move to intercept, and force the fighter to either engage the ally or abandon his attack.

At most one character can take a square of movement against each of another characters, but doing a double move or running at x3 or x4 speed gives a similar advantage to who can outrun or catch up with who.


Of course it needs some tweaking of various fiddly bits of rules, but think it's workable. Feel free to poke this with a sharp stick though, I'm sure there's some horrible complications I'm overlooking.

And oh yes, this is free for anyone to yoink, if they like.

 

[Klaus]

In general, they already do. Large creatures suffer dex penalties, and so slower initiatives.

I theory, but very, very few Large or larger monsters have Dex below 10.

A brontosaurus, for instance, should have a Dex of 3 or 5 at most. A Gargantuan blue dragon has a Dex of 10, same as it had as a Small wyrmling. Stone and Storm giants (Large and Huge) have Dex of 15 and 14.

 

[dmccoy1693]

I've found the best way to keep track of the Battleque system is with an old board game spinner.

Plenty of people use that with Exalted as well. Others use pennies and everyone tosses a penny into the pile when they're all done.