D&D 4E Initiative in 4E

[Klaus]

Here's an option:

If you take an actual move action, the remainder of your actions (or your initiative count in the next round) moves down one place, so you go after the next person.

Example: Initiative order is Bob (23), Jim (18) and the orcs (13).

Bob takes a move action to close with the orcs. He now acts after Jim.

Jim fires two arrows at the orcs while Bob closes in.

On initiative count 17, Bob is close to the orcs and takes his attack action.

One orc returns Bob's attack, but another moves in to close with Jim. His remaining action is taken next initiative, after Jim.

So now the initiative is Jim (18), Bob and orc (both 17) and orc (13).

 

[kibbitz]

Yup, interesting!
The only place I've ever seen anything similar was in the 'Demon's Winter' CRPG. Worked pretty well but I'm not sure I'd like to see it in a pen & paper rpg.

I also think it would be too big a change from the way it's been done in previous editions. The gameplay previews seem to indicate it's similar to how it was in 3E.

Hmm? Assuming you're talking about Demon's Winter from SSI, I believe it's an action point system instead. Faster characters got initiative first and had a larger pool of action points to draw from for actions. However, once you chose to cast a spell or dodge, your turn ended.

 

[Daniel D. Fox]

Personally, I love the abstraction of the Dex-based modifier and Improved Initiative feat applied to the initiative roll only. Weapon speeds and other factors are too time-consuming to take into account when running multiple foes and players in a skirmish. Although admittedly, I love the way SAGA handles level-based bonuses and attributes initiative as a Skill.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Kind of like the example shown in the "Scion: Hero" book?

Don't have scion so I don't know. But I picked it up from a poster on the RPG.net boards before Scion or Exalted 2e was printed.

 

[The Little Raven]

Kind of like the example shown in the "Scion: Hero" book?

Exactly like that.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

I find it very unlikely they would go to a tick-based or even single-action system, for two reasons that they've stated as 4E goals:
1) Fast Play. Tick based systems are slower. Not incredibly slow, if you know them well, but still not as fast. And for newbies, they are much slower.
2) Encouraging Movement. If you go to a single-action system or tick system, then you have the choice to move OR attack. Most people will just move up to their foes and stand there attacking, which is exactly what they were trying to eliminate by getting rid of full-attacks.

I find it unlikely as well since it's so far off anything D&D has every used before. However tick based systems aren't really any slower than a round based system, it's more like they give the impression of drawing out a fight by chopping up actions into smaller intervals. Most of the slowness of Exalted comes from using a dicepool rather than a simple roll. In a d20 tick system basic Movement should become an Immediate action with Fast movement as a 3 tick action or the equivalent of a standard action.

Hrm, it seems like such a system would rule out counterspelling, though, wouldn't it? Unless all counterspells and dispels take 0 time to cast, but that doesn't make much sense in a system where spells have segment lengths, generally (and then, how would one distrupt a counterspell or a dispel?)

The key is to make counterspelling and dispelling an immediate action. That way it can be taken outside your tick.
Caster 1: casts spell
Enemy Caster 1(not on tick): uses immediate action to counterspell
Caster 1: expends immediate action on counterspell to disrupt the opponent's counterspell (highest MAB roll succeeds)

 

[The Little Raven]

I find it unlikely as well since it's so far off anything D&D has every used before. However tick based systems aren't really any slower than a round based system, it's more like they give the impression of drawing out a fight by chopping up actions into smaller intervals. Most of the slowness of Exalted comes from using a dicepool rather than a simple roll. In a d20 tick system basic Movement should become an Immediate action with Fast movement as a 3 tick action or the equivalent of a standard action.

Hmmm... perhaps we might see something of this nature in a 4e version of Unearthed Arcana.

 

[Aage]

Movement as immediate you say? How often exactly can such an immediate action be taken then? And can they be taken at any point during another player's "turn"...?

This tick-based business sounds really neat

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Movement as immediate you say? How often exactly can such an immediate action be taken then? And can they be taken at any point during another player's "turn"...?

This tick-based business sounds really neat

Immediate actions can be taken once during a tick. I also simplified AoO so you only draw them if you move into or out of a threatened zone or take a non-combat action while in a threatened zone.
Example:
Ugly Barbarian: moves adjacent to Nancy-Elf(immediate action) then attacks(standard action)
Nancy-Elf: uses immediate action to move away.
Since the elf is already in a threatened zone he draws an AoO. This is resolved, then because all action during a tick happens simultaneously Ugly Barbarian's attack is resolved. Assuming the pointy-ear survives both attacks he completes his movement. If not then he was cut down trying to run.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Movement as immediate you say? How often exactly can such an immediate action be taken then? And can they be taken at any point during another player's "turn"...?

This tick-based business sounds really neat

In Ex 2nd, You can move a fixed distance every tick or you can use a 3 tick action and move further (similar to a double move). In all truth, it wouldn't take much to translate 3.5 into a tick based combat system. Going from Exalted 1E's combat to Exalted 2E's combat, was a bigger step them d20 3.5 to a tick variant.