Initiative when mounted

[Mahali]

We've used the players Init unless the "mount" is intelligent and more of another party member. Then they have seperate inits.

If your mount is a spell casting death machine or melee monster why should it get what is usually a better initiative just because there is somone sitting on it.

 

[Korak]

why should it get what is usually a better initiative just because there is somone sitting on it.

Because the PC can spur it into action sooner that it would have noticed/reacted to the threat on its own?

 

[FireLance]

So, when mounted, I can, in a single round:
- Move at my mount's speed
- Take a move-equivalent action
- Take a standard action (like attacking)

In essence, being mounted lets you take an additional move-equivalent action each round?

I'm going to love my Gnome Paladin!

AR

You might love him even more. I believe your mount could even take a double move or a run action and you would still get your standard and move actions. Effectively, you are getting an extra round's worth of movement, and most likely at a higher base speed, too.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The damage difference is greater if you're wielding the lance two-handed.

Arguable, by 3.5 Core Rules.

The 3.5 FAQ makes up a lot of weird rules that aren't supported by the Core books regarding this issue, though.

-Hyp.

 

[dcollins]

That's the 3.5 PHB, correct?

Likewise, this appears in the 3.5 SRD. I guess I'll use this since there is no such information for 3.0...

It's exactly the same on 3.0 PHB p. 138.

 

[silentspace]

Arguable, by 3.5 Core Rules.

The 3.5 FAQ makes up a lot of weird rules that aren't supported by the Core books regarding this issue, though.

-Hyp.

Well, it doesn't make intuitive sense, but by the rules, I think you can use a lance two-handed. In game terms, it's a two-handed weapon, after all. It can be used one-handed while mounted. "Can be", not "is". So you must also be able to use a lance two-handed while mounted! Does it make sense if you try to think of it in real world terms? Maybe not. But neither do lots of other things!

What does the FAQ say?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Well, it doesn't make intuitive sense, but by the rules, I think you can use a lance two-handed. In game terms, it's a two-handed weapon, after all. It can be used one-handed while mounted. "Can be", not "is". So you must also be able to use a lance two-handed while mounted!

I don't disagree with you at all.

Where I disagree is that it makes any difference.

As written in the Core Rules, a lance (which can be wielded with one hand while mounted) is a two-handed weapon. A two-handed weapon adds 1.5x Str bonus to damage. Therefore a lance, wielded in one hand while mounted, is a two-handed weapon, and adds 1.5x Str bonus to damage - the same as if you wield it in two hands while mounted.

The FAQ has some nonsense answers about how a longsword (a one-handed weapon) wielded in two hands is a two-handed weapon. This completely ignores all the references in the Core Rules to "a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands". By the same logic, the Sage declared that a lance used while mounted is not a two-handed weapon at all, but rather a one-handed weapon. This is unsupported by the rules.

-Hyp.

 

[Keith]

The lance is listed as a two-handed weapon, but does not meet at least one, perhaps both of the criteria for being such.
" Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively." Well, it turns out, not when that two-handed weapon is a lance in the hand of someone on a mount.

"Apply 1-1/2 times the character?s Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with such a weapon." Maybe- there is certainly room to think so, I guess. It is, though, pretty heavily implied by the first sentence that "WHEN used in two hands, apply etc." This would, I think, make the lance the only weapon wielded in one hand to get this bonus. I think this is a judgment call- I can't agree that the rules are clear one way or the other.

I think the likeliest intent for the mounted rule was that the lance may be used in one hand, as a one-handed weapon in that case. Defies its definition as two-handed? Then it is back to explaining how a weapon that requires two hands, by definition, can be used in one.
No question, a little more clarity would have been handy.

Cheers

 

[Old Gumphrey]

Your gnome is going to do 2 hp less damage due to size and strength. With spirited charge, that's 6 hp less damage each hit, compared to a dwarf, human, half-elf or elf. 9 hp less damage than a half-orc.

But he'll have more HP and Armor Class...and like you said, he can go where horses can't.

I thought you got 1.5x str for wielding a weapon in 2 hands, not just because it's a 2-handed weapon? You can put a battleaxe in 2 hands and get 1.5x str; why would a lance give you that benefit in one hand? You get to use a shield with it already if you're mounted.

 

[Hypersmurf]

" Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively." Well, it turns out, not when that two-handed weapon is a lance in the hand of someone on a mount.

That's right.

The general rule is that two-handed weapons require two hands to wield effectively. The specific text of the lance overrides this - it can be used in one hand while mounted.

The general rule is that two-handed weapons add 1.5x Str bonus to damage. Nothing in the specific text of the lance contradicts this.

Then it is back to explaining how a weapon that requires two hands, by definition, can be used in one.

A reach weapon cannot be used against an adjacent target. The specific text of the spiked chain overrides this general rule.

Special cases trump generalities.

I thought you got 1.5x str for wielding a weapon in 2 hands, not just because it's a 2-handed weapon?

A light weapon wielded in the primary hand adds Str bonus to damage. A light weapon wielded in the off-hand adds half Str bonus to damage. A light weapon gains no special benefit for being wielded in two hands.

A one-handed weapon wielded in the primary hand adds Str bonus to damage. A one-handed weapon wielded in the off-hand adds half Str bonus to damage. A one-handed weapon wielded in two hands adds 1.5x Str bonus to damage.

A two-handed weapon adds 1.5x Str bonus to damage.

A lance is a two-handed weapon.

-Hyp.