Inner Circle's review of 4e

DaveMage said:
Cinematic in the sense that your combat scenes are similar to action films...

Cinematic in that they're like cinema? Yeah, I'm an idiot today and going 0-2 so far...

I certainly have elements of cinematic flair in my combat at times, but its not all flashy Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon or Jackie Chan style craziness. A few of us have done stage combat and have martial training so our combats are more grounded in realism (as grounded as one could get in a game with magic and dragons), but we do have some of those cool moments from time to time.

A lot of people really seem to complain about Action Points and how they're so not D&D. The Action Points in 4e are a FAR cry from the ones in Eberron. Eberron I see as crazy over the top cinematic action like you are describing. Actions Points in 4e just give you another action.

Like healing surges I equate it to your character reaching into himself and digging deeper to find more and carry on. It's like watching a Pro Running Back in the NFL playing injured and still excelling at times when you think he'll drop like a wet rag. I had my reservations about Action Points too, but even at D&D Experience I thought they were really well done.
 

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Pinotage said:
You mentioned this in your review, but I thought I'd ask for an expanded view if you have the time. Do you think 4e will be easier to design for?

Good question. Considering I haven't had more than a few minutes with the core books its tough to say. I'll give you my thoughts on what I think now with the caveat that come this weekend I may do a complete 360. Plus, a lot of it depends on how much of a look they give us under the hood of the system. If the DMG spells out everything and gives us the mathematical formulas for how tough something should be at a given level, how much damage a sword should do, and how much of a bonus a feat should grant I don't think it'll be too bad.

I don't think WotC will do that and as a result I think the game will be harder to design for. Certainly someone like John Cooper will have a lot less to gripe about when it comes to monster statistics since everything is now "more art than science." So monster design will be better as its easier when it comes to putting down the numbers.

No matter how well the math works though, monsters are remembered for how they play out on the battlefield. Right now I'm looking through Monte Cook's Best d20 and all of the monsters that appeared from Denizens of Avadnu and a lot of those I'm not sure how I'd convert. You need cool mechanics to back up those designs. 3e was the edition of improved grab, but we managed and did really well. 4e seems like the edition of all attacks do damage and I'm not sure how to work with that.

To be frank, design for 4e has me a little intimidated. When everything was ramping up for 3rd Edition I had access to the books very early and Ryan Dancey was on the list answering questions every night. Can my fears be unfounded? Sure. When I look at the very slight differences in creature design in what I've seen in 4e, the huge list of powers that comes with every core class, and a streamlined set of rules, I just feel that its going to be harder to innovate.

Can I easily make a new monster that's balanced with the math of the system? Sure. Is it going to be cool and evocative and be an encounter that you and other players will remember for years to come? I dunno. There are probably people at WotC reading this thinking I'm an idiot. I wouldn't be the first time I've grossly misjudged something, but my instincts have me worried. We'll see what happens.
 

JVisgaitis said:
Cinematic in that they're like cinema? Yeah, I'm an idiot today and going 0-2 so far...

I certainly have elements of cinematic flair in my combat at times, but its not all flashy Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon or Jackie Chan style craziness. A few of us have done stage combat and have martial training so our combats are more grounded in realism (as grounded as one could get in a game with magic and dragons), but we do have some of those cool moments from time to time.

A lot of people really seem to complain about Action Points and how they're so not D&D. The Action Points in 4e are a FAR cry from the ones in Eberron. Eberron I see as crazy over the top cinematic action like you are describing. Actions Points in 4e just give you another action.

Like healing surges I equate it to your character reaching into himself and digging deeper to find more and carry on. It's like watching a Pro Running Back in the NFL playing injured and still excelling at times when you think he'll drop like a wet rag. I had my reservations about Action Points too, but even at D&D Experience I thought they were really well done.

The reason I asked about a cinematic style is that on another message board, someone commented how 4E will make it much easier to have a cinematic-style game, and they were very much looking forward to that. From what I've seen, I would agree that 4E was the right choice for him.
 

DaveMage said:
The reason I asked about a cinematic style is that on another message board, someone commented how 4E will make it much easier to have a cinematic-style game, and they were very much looking forward to that. From what I've seen, I would agree that 4E was the right choice for him.

I'd agree. It's definitely more cinematic then any other edition. Its not hard to accomplish when the previous editions would have two characters stand next to each other for 12 rounds taking turns rolling 20s.
 



JVisgaitis said:
Can I easily make a new monster that's balanced with the math of the system? Sure. Is it going to be cool and evocative and be an encounter that you and other players will remember for years to come? I dunno. There are probably people at WotC reading this thinking I'm an idiot. I wouldn't be the first time I've grossly misjudged something, but my instincts have me worried. We'll see what happens.

Thanks for this. It's good to see a designer's point of view other than Clark from Necromancer! :)

Pinotage
 

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