D&D General Insanely Epic Arrow Deflection

[Garthanos]

I very much understand the attraction, but the cynic in me expects that it works in practice exactly the opposite of how those that are attracted to it imagine.

Periodically having a cool awesome enemies is fine where I come from... Not sure why you think its about utter dominance. (but then I do not actually want that videos extremity) for me in practice its about being fun.

There are also legends about bouncing arrows to evade the enemy defenses.

Or actually being able to single handedly deliver a barrage alah Hiawatha or some of the Asian plains horsemen (who may have used a snap shot technique which actually works)

An arrow shot which could stun the defenders arm for a moment reducing their defenses for a round or two totally doable.

 

[GMMichael]

Insanely Epic Arrow Deflection

Normally I would say 4e is the most out of the Box D&D edition for Epic class effects but honestly 4e is for the most part actually rather tame even for martial impossibility realm*

Normally this would be an abuse of keywords to garner the clicks of casual internet users.

But "epic" is properly used to refer to class/challenge levels.

And "insane" accurately describes the temple defenders in the clip. Because they are clearly delusional if they think it's a good idea to walk into a hail of arrows wearing only linen garments.

Well put, @Garthanos!

 

[DND_Reborn]

Insanely Epic Arrow Deflection



Normally this would be an abuse of keywords to garner the clicks of casual internet users.

But "epic" is properly used to refer to class/challenge levels.

And "insane" accurately describes the temple defenders in the clip. Because they are clearly delusional if they think it's a good idea to walk into a hail of arrows wearing only linen garments.

Well put, @Garthanos!

Yeah, from the title I was expecting something happened at his table, like a monk deflecting a shot, "throwing/ attacking" another ally monk with the shot, who then "throws/attacks" another, etc. in such a manner as to make it hit a target out of sight of the original target.

THAT would have been worthy of the thread's title IMO.

 

[Garthanos]

Normally this would be an abuse of keywords to garner the clicks of casual internet users.

Well put, @Garthanos!

I was totally shooting for that but I am fond of truth in advertising, and also the extremity of it is insane not just the behavior of the people.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I very much understand the attraction, but the cynic in me expects that it works in practice exactly the opposite of how those that are attracted to it imagine.
The attraction is quite simple, "Wow, wouldn't this be cool for my PC to do!"
But the practice is in my experience rather different. The practice is that the GM says, "Wow, wouldn't this be cool for my NPC to do!"

DMs do have unlimited license to let NPCs/Monster do whatever they want. So whether you as a player, want arrow-cutting to be something you might come up against, the DM may well decide that someone you face is going to do it. Or, just cast some variation on "Protection from Normal (or your archer guy's because I'm clos'n the loophole) Missiles" and, well, hey, at least in 5e you're automatically pretty good with that rapier (totally the classic side-arm of medieval archers!) anyway.
At least if there's a balanced/playable established mechanic it's a little more likely the DM will just use that, and not screw you over with some absolute/arbitrary thing of his own devising.

 

[Umbran]

And "insane" accurately describes the temple defenders in the clip. Because they are clearly delusional if they think it's a good idea to walk into a hail of arrows wearing only linen garments.

Yeah. That was filmed in autumn, and linen is a summer weight fabric. What madness!

 

[Garthanos]

Or, just cast some variation on "Protection from Normal (or your archer guy's because I'm clos'n the loophole) Missiles"

Shhhhhhhhhhh it's insane remember that bit martial cannot ever do something like a magic dude does with a low level magic, let alone a level 3... never ever ever.

 

[Celebrim]

At least if there's a balanced/playable established mechanic it's a little more likely the DM will just use that, and not screw you over with some absolute/arbitrary thing of his own devising.

Yes, but the sort of people really attracted to this sort of thing tend exactly to be the sort of people unhappy with the existing mechanics, and exactly the sort of people who tend to craft mechanics which are more interested in simulating what they saw in some cool epic movie, and not to care whether it establishes a balanced/playable mechanic because they are so excited about having the sweet sweet cool thing.

I get players who occasionally demand highly favorable rulings from me, and I've gotten where whenever someone thinks I'm being unfair, I remind them that whatever rules that I apply to the PCs I'm going to apply to the NPCs. If they really want the more favorable ruling, then I'll offer it to them out of my generosity.

But, it comes with a price. The more generous the ruling the more it will be the case that NPCs will cash in on the same ruling and use the same tricks, because why wouldn't they?

 

[Tony Vargas]

Yes, but the sort of people really attracted to this sort of thing tend exactly to be the sort of people unhappy with the existing mechanics, and exactly the sort of people who tend to craft mechanics which are more interested in simulating what they saw in some cool epic movie, and not to care whether it establishes a balanced/playable mechanic because they are so excited about having the sweet sweet cool thing.

That's a /LOT/ of assumptions about /people/, rather than thoughts on modeling this or that cool thing from genre or action movies or even RL.

We could as easily assume that the kinds of people who object to this sort of thing tend to want the spotlight to stay on magic spells and magic items, and keep martial options constrained to deciding who to make attack rolls against, without any concern for balance or playability, and even an active hostility to other players' fun. Just speed through the meatshield's turn ASAP to get back to the point of the game, the magic.
But, while at least as valid a set of presumptions, that wouldn't be constructive, either.

I get players who occasionally demand highly favorable rulings from me, and I've gotten where whenever someone thinks I'm being unfair, I remind them that whatever rules that I apply to the PCs I'm going to apply to the NPCs. If they really want the more favorable ruling, then I'll offer it to them out of my generosity.
But, it comes with a price. The more generous the ruling the more it will be the case that NPCs will cash in on the same ruling and use the same tricks, because why wouldn't they?

I understand (and have certainly used) that DMing tactic, sure. I don't see how "this sort of thing" would even be a ruling under the current rules, though. It'd have to be some sort of addition to the game, wouldn't it? (That is, it'd have to appear in a supplement, and the DM opt into it, or the DM would have to add it as a house rule.) And, while players need to have something like that offered, the DM can insert it to a monster or NPC at whim. So, no, I don't see codifying some cool genre (be it fantasy or broader action genres) bit or even RL stunt, in a fun/balanced/playable way that'd be utilized from both sides of the screen as a chilling prospect.

 

[Celebrim]

Shhhhhhhhhhh it's insane remember that bit martial cannot ever do something like a magic dude does with a low level magic... never ever ever.

Protection from normal missiles can't do this. In 5e for example all it does is give archers disadvantage on attacks and resistance. Given the number of archers and arrows involved - more than 100 arrows are striking the target each round - this would lethal very quickly. The 3e version of the spell would expend its protection in the first couple rounds as well, after which the spellcaster would be dead in short order.

But sure, you could have a martial class that could cast "Protection from Normal Missiles" a certain number of times a day if you wanted to simulate "Insane Epic Arrow Deflection". However, at that point it's questionable whether it is a martial class. For example, if the martial class had a daily power, "Insane Epic Arrow Deflection" which was basically, "For one minute as an extraordinary non-magical ability you get the same effect as Protection from Normal Missiles", that would probably be fine. But it would be a martial ability in name only, because all you've really done is borrow some preexisting mechanics for simulating magical ability, and given them a thin veneer of being non-magical. What you really then have is a sort of "sword magic", which is martial by the rules, but operates in pretty much all ways just like magic.

I should also note that in the context of traditional Chinese culture, what you are seeing is in fact "sword magic". These aren't martial classes at all, but have access to jitong and chi through their long training and meditative arts. You might as well say that what they are doing now is expending spell points and it would make perfect sense in context. In the context of the setting, the archers are the martial classed characters that lack supernatural ability, and the major characters are all basically Jedi Knights wielding the force. That guy with the brush might as well be inscribing a magical symbol. See for example 'Baguadao'.

If you on the other hand want to give the martial class a certain martial flair that is distinctive from magic, then you have to find some way to limit that ability in a way that makes sense thematically but limits the ability in some fashion different to but comparable to all the ways that D&D has historically found to put limits on magic so that it no longer has just the power of plot. And I'm perfectly fine with that, but my experience with people asking for martials to do this sort of thing is gameplay and balance in the spotlight is about the furthest thing from their mind.