CRGreathouse
Community Supporter
How much would you charge for an item (slotted) that grants a +4 insight bonus to attack rolls and AC?
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Insight bonus -- pricing
- Thread starter CRGreathouse
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CRGreathouse said:
Lots and lots and lots and lots and lots.
A +4 armor bonus to AC runs at 16k. A +4 deflection bonus to AC runs at 32k. This is like an entirely new bonus that stacks with everything . . . making it a minimum of 32k in price just for that, and I'd charge more (since you ask).
The +4 insight bonus to attack -- youch. Bracers of archery give +2 to hit and +1 to damage (if within 30') and run 5100gp. And are commonly thought to be way-cheaty with the daisy-munching archer set. Using those guidelines, an item that gave nothing but +4 to hit would run around 20k (and I would argue it should cost more -- who wouldn't want an item that gave a constant +4 to hit for a lousy 20k?!)
Stacking different bennies doubles the cost of the most expensive bennie. So you're looking at 20k+2*32k = 84k.
And I say that's low. I would put the price a little higher, to be honest (100k, minimum, probably more like 150k), but I think 84k is your absolute lower bound.
I'd charge out the wazoo for an item of an uncommon stacking type, because each additional bonus means more than the previous one.
Here's what I mean. If your only defense is bracers of armor, everything will hit you. If you add a ring of prorection, weak monsters will sart missing you. Add an amulet of natural armor on top of that (bringing your AC into the 20s), and the big monsters may actually miss part of the time. The amulet costs twice as much as the other two bonus types, because the third stacking type is what gives you the greatest benefit.
So for the AC bonus alone, I'd charge 64k (four times as much as equivalent bracers, or twice as much as equivalent natural armor).
The bonus to hit should also be expensive. A +4 weapon would cost you 32k. From one point of view this item is less useful than that, since it doesn't increase your damage or let you penetrate DR; on the other hand, it does stack with your existing weapon bonus, which is a huge benefit. I'd probably jack the price up a bit, but for now let's be conservative and leave it at 32k.
Since it's a slotted item, the secondary ability costs double.
Total market price: 128k.
Here's what I mean. If your only defense is bracers of armor, everything will hit you. If you add a ring of prorection, weak monsters will sart missing you. Add an amulet of natural armor on top of that (bringing your AC into the 20s), and the big monsters may actually miss part of the time. The amulet costs twice as much as the other two bonus types, because the third stacking type is what gives you the greatest benefit.
So for the AC bonus alone, I'd charge 64k (four times as much as equivalent bracers, or twice as much as equivalent natural armor).
The bonus to hit should also be expensive. A +4 weapon would cost you 32k. From one point of view this item is less useful than that, since it doesn't increase your damage or let you penetrate DR; on the other hand, it does stack with your existing weapon bonus, which is a huge benefit. I'd probably jack the price up a bit, but for now let's be conservative and leave it at 32k.
Since it's a slotted item, the secondary ability costs double.
Total market price: 128k.
dcollins
Explorer
That's a tough one. Granted that "insight" is basically the only bonus type with no existing magic item providing it (per table on DMG p. 177), I'd be hard pressed to allow such an item in the game.
Is there anything in the core rules other than true strike that lends an insight bonus (and by corollary, any real example of an insight bonus to AC)? Does the "flavor" of that bonus type (divined information about one specific immediate task) argue against any item providing it an a constant basis?
Is there anything in the core rules other than true strike that lends an insight bonus (and by corollary, any real example of an insight bonus to AC)? Does the "flavor" of that bonus type (divined information about one specific immediate task) argue against any item providing it an a constant basis?
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kreynolds
First Post
CRGreathouse said:
I'd charge you 96,000gp. The pricing would look like this...
attack bonus: 4 x 4 x 2000 = 32,000
ac bonus: 4 x 4 x 2000 = 32,000 (x2 for secondary power)
Total: 96,000
Also, I only used 2000 in the pricing fomula because insight bonuses don't stack with each other. Luck bonuses use 2500, and are more expensive, because they do in fact stack with each other. Anyhow, just looking ahead.
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Spatzimaus
First Post
Let's also remember that thanks to feats like Power Attack and Expertise, an attack bonus is MORE useful than a damage bonus or AC bonus, since it can be turned into those. So, I'd definitely go with Kreynold's basic concept, except that I would put the cost at 2500*n^2 since it's an even rarer type of bonus. It's more like a Luck bonus than a Deflection bonus.
That is, I'd divide everything into three categories:
COMMON: (Armor) 1000*n^2
MODERATE: (Deflection, Natural) 2000*n^2
RARE: (Luck, Insight, Dodge*, Sacred, etc.): 2500*n^2
*-Dodge isn't rare but it stacks with itself.
That'd put the total cost at 120k.
I'd also require it to be a Ring. No wondrous items should be this powerful, under the "quacks like a duck" theorem.
That is, I'd divide everything into three categories:
COMMON: (Armor) 1000*n^2
MODERATE: (Deflection, Natural) 2000*n^2
RARE: (Luck, Insight, Dodge*, Sacred, etc.): 2500*n^2
*-Dodge isn't rare but it stacks with itself.
That'd put the total cost at 120k.
I'd also require it to be a Ring. No wondrous items should be this powerful, under the "quacks like a duck" theorem.
kreynolds,
I was unaware that luck bonuses stacked with eachother - I thought it was pretty much only dodge bonuses. Can you reference where you got that information?
I am particularly interested because I am creating an encounter with an elven border patrol consisting of bladesingers and clerics. The clerics are all pretty low level and I specifically selected their spells with the fact in mind that most bonuses don't stack (so no divine favor and prayer stacking, no bless and aid stacking, etc.)
It looks like I may have been doing this incorrectly.
As far as I am aware, the only things that stack are
Dodge (and now) Luck
(I also stack circumstances bonuses - not sure if that is a house rule or not, but it makes sense regardless).
Thanks
I was unaware that luck bonuses stacked with eachother - I thought it was pretty much only dodge bonuses. Can you reference where you got that information?
I am particularly interested because I am creating an encounter with an elven border patrol consisting of bladesingers and clerics. The clerics are all pretty low level and I specifically selected their spells with the fact in mind that most bonuses don't stack (so no divine favor and prayer stacking, no bless and aid stacking, etc.)
It looks like I may have been doing this incorrectly.
As far as I am aware, the only things that stack are
Dodge (and now) Luck
(I also stack circumstances bonuses - not sure if that is a house rule or not, but it makes sense regardless).
Thanks
