Inspire Greatness -- Bonus Hit Dice?

[Slaved]

Do the Bonus Hit Dice granted by the Bardic Inspire Greatness Ability do anything related to Hit Dice other than their Effect on Spells that are Hit Dice Dependant?

Why use the term Hit Dice at all here? It is a very loaded term to go throwing around!

 

[Mistwell]

I don't know. The primary use is to assign additional hit points. I don't know why they didn't want to just add 2d10 temporary hit points, aside from the fact that they wanted to add your Con modifier to the temporary hit points.

You raise an interesting question though. Are the hit points gained by this ability actually "temporary hit points" in the sense that such a phrase is usually used in this game?

One could argue that Inspire Greatness grants extra temporary hit dice, not temporary hit points (at least, not directly): "A creature inspired with greatness gains 2 bonus Hit Dice (d10s), the commensurate number of temporary hit points (apply the target's Constitution modifier, if any, to these bonus Hit Dice)".

"Commensurate" number of "temporary" hit points could be referencing back to the gained hit dice, not actual temporary hit points. They are temporary in the sense that they come from the gained hit dice, and the gained hit dice are temporary because they only last as long as you are under the effect of Inspire Greatness. But in this interpretation they are not actual "temporary hit points" as that term is usually used (because they come from hit dice, and are related to your Constitution score for example, like hit dice).

Therefore, they would stack with actual "temporary hit points" as that term is normally used. And, might they not be healable while you are still under the effects of Inspire Greatness, since the hit points are only commensurate with the hit dice, and you still have the extra hit dice?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Therefore, they would stack with actual "temporary hit points" as that term is normally used. And, might they not be healable while you are still under the effects of Inspire Greatness, since the hit points are only commensurate with the hit dice, and you still have the extra hit dice?

This is how I read it - the temporary is an adjective describing the hit points, rather than an actual instance of the game element 'temporary hit points'.

The hit dice could potentially provide extra benefit to characters with feats like Practised Spellcaster or Natural Bond (which have bonuses that cap at the character's hit dice), and apart from the fixed d10, I'd be inclined to treat them as racial hit dice - humanoid, for most PCs - for purposes of BAB, Saves, Feats, and ability score increases.

Moral of the story? If you've got a 9th level bard in your party, figure out your +2HD stats in advance!

-Hyp.

 

[Mistwell]

This is how I read it - the temporary is an adjective describing the hit points, rather than an actual instance of the game element 'temporary hit points'.

The hit dice could potentially provide extra benefit to characters with feats like Practised Spellcaster or Natural Bond (which have bonuses that cap at the character's hit dice), and apart from the fixed d10, I'd be inclined to treat them as racial hit dice - humanoid, for most PCs - for purposes of BAB, Saves, Feats, and ability score increases.

Moral of the story? If you've got a 9th level bard in your party, figure out your +2HD stats in advance!

-Hyp.

Wait, are you saying that you can gain a leveled feat while under the effect of Inspire Greatness? That you would gain new skill ranks? That you would gain BAB? Better Saves? Ability score increases?

Wow, that would be a HUGE boost. Enough to convince me to not only take Song of the Heart (+1 HD) but also Words of Creation (+2 more).

I dunno Hyp, that seems like a like of bonuses from just 2HD.

 

[Nifft]

I'm with Mistwell on this one. IMHO the full benefit of the bonus hit dice is explained in the Inspire Greatness description:

A creature inspired with greatness gains 2 bonus Hit Dice (d10s), the commensurate number of temporary hit points (apply the target’s Constitution modifier, if any, to these bonus Hit Dice), a +2 competence bonus on attack rolls, and a +1 competence bonus on Fortitude saves. The bonus Hit Dice count as regular Hit Dice for determining the effect of spells that are Hit Dice dependant.

The BAB increase, bonus to Fortitude save, and the hit points are all the bonus Hit Dice grant, aside from being treated as though you had an extra +2 hit dice.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Hypersmurf]

I dunno Hyp, that seems like a like of bonuses from just 2HD.

When you cast Awaken and the animal gains +2 HD, do you increase his BAB and saves, check for extra feats, etc?

I do. He's gained two hit dice, and those things are a function of hit dice.

Inspire Greatness states that the subject gains 2 HD.

-Hyp.

 

[Nifft]

When you cast Awaken and the animal gains +2 HD, do you increase his BAB and saves, check for extra feats, etc?

I do. He's gained two hit dice, and those things are a function of hit dice.

Inspire Greatness states that the subject gains 2 HD.

Not quite.

Awaken states:

An awakened animal gets 3d6 Intelligence, +1d3 Charisma, and +2 HD.

... which is significantly different from the text of Inspire Greatness.

IMHO, the specific, enumerated benefits from Inspire Greatness's bonus HD are the only benefits of those HD.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Slaved]

An awakened animal gets +2 HD

A creature inspired with greatness gains 2 bonus Hit Dice

These are significantly different?

 

[Hypersmurf]

IMHO, the specific, enumerated benefits from Inspire Greatness's bonus HD are the only benefits of those HD.

So no benefit for resisting an Intimidate attempt (1d20 + hit dice + Wis bonus + vs fear bonus)? Determining effect of a Dragon's Frightful Presence on an Inspired character? A Ghaele's Gaze? A Lich's Fear Aura?

-Hyp.

 

[Mistwell]

I am not saying Hyp is wrong. I'm saying my balance senses are tingling. That it might be overpowered, though correct according to the RAW.

I know...it's a bard, so they have plenty of room to grow power-wise before they are overpowered. Still, with all the new feats and items and such, +2 to +5 HD means a pretty big boost!