Intensify Spell is an Epic WASTE!!!!

Crothian · Aug 6, 2002

Well, what with Gen Con they may be a little busy. You might want to wait till September

Oni · Aug 6, 2002

Mr. Collins hasn't remained completely quiet on the subject. You can read this thread over at his message board.

http://pub36.ezboard.com/fgameschat19968frm2.showMessage?topicID=83.topic

kreynolds · Aug 7, 2002

Anubis said:
Idiots . . .

...and you have so much to offer that they cannot. OK. I'm lying. Anyways, at least you gave me a great idea for another real-life feat.

drowdude · Aug 7, 2002

Oni said:
Mr. Collins hasn't remained completely quiet on the subject. You can read this thread over at his message board.

http://pub36.ezboard.com/fgameschat19968frm2.showMessage?topicID=83.topic

About freaking time....

(( man I really need to something about those extra avatars... that's just annoying

))

Marshall · Aug 7, 2002

drowdude said:
About freaking time....

(( man I really need to something about those extra avatars... that's just annoying ))

'Course he didnt bother to state which part of the "interpretation" he agrees with. GT has a lot to say, and all of it is counter to the way MM currently works.

drowdude · Aug 7, 2002

Marshall said:
'Course he didnt bother to state which part of the "interpretation" he agrees with. GT has a lot to say, and all of it is counter to the way MM currently works.

Oh please... just drop it...

Andy confirmed that Enhance spell indeed *does* modify the base spell... which means other metamagic effects are applied AFTER Enhance... now if you arent sure of what that means, I posted up some numbers a while back that will illustrate the point for you...

Marshall · Aug 7, 2002

drowdude said:
Oh please... just drop it...

Andy confirmed that Enhance spell indeed *does* modify the base spell... which means other metamagic effects are applied AFTER Enhance... now if you arent sure of what that means, I posted up some numbers a while back that will illustrate the point for you...

Ok drow, IF(and I still mean if, since his response infers he didnt write it) it works that way, what about other feats? Do you get the Four levels automatically Heighten? How about Intensify, does it DoubleMax the new cap? So on and so forth.

Oh yeah youre still stuck with the problem that "Empower still does everything Enhance does, and does it better and does it quicker and does it with less of a feat investment and..."

drowdude · Aug 7, 2002

Marshall said:
Ok drow, IF(and I still mean if, since his response infers he didnt write it) it works that way,

Ok... first if you arent going to accept the interpretation approved by the co-author of the freaking book then we can go ahead and close up shop now... since it really can't be argued any further than that...

Marshall said:
what about other feats? Do you get the Four levels automatically Heighten? How about Intensify, does it DoubleMax the new cap? So on and so forth.

Ok, not sure wtf you are talking about with the Heighten comment... but yes Intensify would DoubleMax based on the new cap... Empower would add +50% to the damage based on the new cap... Maximize would.... you get the idea...

Marshall said:
Oh yeah youre still stuck with the problem that "Empower still does everything Enhance does, and does it better and does it quicker and does it with less of a feat investment and..."

*sigh* I can see that I am going to have to repost the numbers....

drowdude · Aug 7, 2002

drowdude said:
Working off of Fireball (av. dmg 35) as the base spell, and a max of 9th level spell slots...

Also assuming Enhance Spell modifies the *base* effect of the spell (which I think it does anways)...

--------------------------------------

* Empower x3 = Average Damage 87.5 (range = 25-150)

* Maximized + Empowered = Average Damage 77.5 (range = 65-90)

---------------------------------------

* Enhanced + Empowered = Average Damage 105 (range = 30-180)

---------------------------------------

Now consider it after taking Improved Metamagic once....

* Empower x6 = Average Damage 140 (range = 40-240)

* Empower x4 + Maximize = Average Damage 130 (range = 80-180)

* Enhanced + Empowered x3 = Average Damage 175 (range = 50-300)

* Enhanced + Maximized + Empowered = Average Damage 155 (range = 130-180)

----------------------------------------

Empower does seem at first glance much better than Maximize. But it all depends on how reliable you like your spells to be. Maximize drives the base damage up considerably in each case, which makes it *very* reliable versus Empower which is only better if you actually roll well on the damage dice.

In *ALL* cases where it was used, Enhance spell drives up the base/average/max damage. Thus it does it's job very well IMO.

Now back to the inital point of this thread, regarding Intensify Spell....

Yeah, basically, it's a waste. Now, my contention is that the problem lies with this "epic" feat rather than stacking up Empower. IMO, it's cost should be lowered to +5 levels or so.

Marshall · Aug 7, 2002

You stop too soon. With this "ruling" Enhance is useful once, if and only if, the base damage is already 20 or less. At that point 1 Empower equals Enhance and since I can double Empower, Enhance just falls into obscurity...