Interesting Arcane Archer question...

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

No Reflex save!

After all, the arcane archer has to hit the target first with a standard ranged attack (and he can only use phase arrow once per day). Giving the target AC and a save is double jeopardy.

And yes, a 5d6 point Fireball against a CR 10 foe is simply not dangerous to the foe.

 

[Lela]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hmm...

Why? Last session instead of having the players get paid by the king to go on an adventure I masterfully set the mood and cinematic tone by having a mysterious wizard approach them in a bar and promise them...platinum pieces if they went on a quest. A lesser DM would have had something cliche like gold or silver but I like my adventures to be a little more creative.

Anyway, I hadn't decided which way I would rule on the issue when I asked the question (I've neither played in or DM'd a campaign featuring an Arcane Archer), I was just curious as to what people thought of it.

Half of my follow-ups have been for the sake of playing Devil's Advocate and the other half just for my own amusement. So there you go.

You, sir, are a Troll. I've noticed that Hong doesn't take to Trolls by ignoring them, like many of us. He goes in, makes very good points, and often comes out on top. Quite impressive really.

I don't really feel like perusing that link you cited, mind to sum up what the "dude factor" is?

It's another example of people trying to explain the rules with RL logic. Ordinary logic applied to extraordinary things (PHB 40, 48, 126, 158).

By the way, pay close attention to the second to the last sentence on 158. It's kinda key here.

 

[Kai Lord]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hmm...

You, sir, are a Troll.

I'll be sure to put that on my resume.

I've noticed that Hong doesn't take to Trolls by ignoring them, like many of us. He goes in, makes very good points, and often comes out on top.

Except that if I was really trolling from the beginning, just the fact that he responded meant he lost. Period. There's no coming out on top when someone plays you like a puppet, even if your little puppet dance is really, really entertaining.

Quite impressive really.

I can't imagine how impressed you must be when trout bite lures. Wow! He showed that fisherman! He totally mutilated that worm before being scooped up in the net and cooked for dinner....

For the record, when I said "for my own amusement" I was more referring to my "reflex saves are broken" post, which was obviously a joke.

It's another example of people trying to explain the rules with RL logic. Ordinary logic applied to extraordinary things (PHB 40, 48, 126, 158).

By the way, pay close attention to the second to the last sentence on 158. It's kinda key here.

Its key to the way you play. Not me. In my campaigns, if there is literally no possible explanation for something occurring, it doesn't happen. In a world with abundant magic and divine intervention, not a whole lot is ruled out.

A rogue in a 10' by 10' jail cell who gets shot with a Fireball would not get to use his Improved Evasion class ability in my campaign. But in your campaign he obviously does, because there is a nice and shiny rule for it. Never mind how much hand waving you have to do to explain how that actually happens, your cute little rogue is unhurt, because he dodged it.

Then he picks the lock with his Mercurial lockpick and....

Have fun playing the way you play, and responding to trolls....

 

[Dagger75]

So presuming something could emulate the damage, power, area & force of a nuclear weapon the Rogue should be allowed a Reflex save even if it's set off 1 inch from his head? As per the rules yes he's allowed a save but ain't no rogue that fast. There isn't enough time to get off a spell.

Thanks for giving me a new way to find a thieves guild. Drop a nuke on a city, any body who walk away unscathed is the rogue. Then shoot them. "Dodge This." --Trinity, The Matrix

 

[Stalker0]

I reread the passage about imbue arrow.

First is says: "When the arrow is fired, the spell's area is centered upon where the arrow LANDS"

Not hits, not strikes, lands. That sounds like the arrow is not aimed at a person, it is aimed at the square a person's in.

Then it says: "This ability allows the archer to use the bow's range rather than the spell's range" I think that passage makes it clear that the intent of the ability is to simply extend the bow's range.

I would rule that you don't need to make an attack roll, since no roll is ever mentioned with the ability. Or you could require an attack roll to hit a certain spot on the ground, with maybe some of the rules for misthrown grenade-like weapons.

So that would mean an AA could shoot a fireball with a composite longbow out 1100 feet (10 range increments). Nice.

 

[Marshall]

Note that for a rules scenario that involves this general idea we have Flame Arrow. It requires a touch attack and yet still allows a reflex save. The save DC is in no way increased by the effects of the touch attack.

And you will find that WotC conveniently ignores Flame Aroow as being a legitimate spell. Since it does, by the by, break the RULES for creating spells in the DMG.

ie No Reflex Saves with Attack Rolls.

As to the question at hand, I'd allow the Reflex save since the arrow made the to-hit roll not the spell. However it would be one of those special cases to deny Evasion.

 

[Marshall]

Thanks for giving me a new way to find a thieves guild. Drop a nuke on a city, any body who walk away unscathed is the rogue. Then shoot them. "Dodge This." --Trinity, The Matrix

ROTFLMAO!

Hmmm! That sounds like a plot hook for a (Ex)Paladin order...

 

[James McMurray]

Could you point me to a source where WotC states that Flame Arrow is not a real spell? Or perhaps even a source where WotC says to ignore Flame Arrow when attempting to adjudicate similar situations?

Perhaps it is just a case where the rules as guidelines were not viewed sufficient. Perhaps Flame Arrow without a save would be a bit powerful for its level, so they went against their own guidelines and gave it one?

 

[Kai Lord]

ROTFLMAO!

Hmmm! That sounds like a plot hook for a (Ex)Paladin order...

Actually Samuel L. Jackson tried almost that exact same trick in an M. Night Shyamalan movie....

 

[Marshall]

Could you point me to a source where WotC states that Flame Arrow is not a real spell? Or perhaps even a source where WotC says to ignore Flame Arrow when attempting to adjudicate similar situations?

Perhaps it is just a case where the rules as guidelines were not viewed sufficient. Perhaps Flame Arrow without a save would be a bit powerful for its level, so they went against their own guidelines and gave it one?

Or Flame Arrow is a direct translation from 2e and nobody bothered to check the actual rules on things. Note its the only spell that combines an attack roll and a Reflex save.

And I cant point to a source because WotC refuses to comment on the spell. Its broke, they refuse to fix it. It only takes changing from REF to FORT.