Interview with Scott Rouse, Chris Perkins & Bill Slavicsek

[Jim Hague]

I've been hoping to see a clear explanation for how a strictly online format is better. NDA notwithstanding, nobody seems willing to touch that issue.

That would be why it's called and NDA - Non Disclosure Agreement. I'd imagine it's still in development and testing, which means no content provider doing things electronically is going to release information into the wild until it's ready or almost so. Common in the electronic distribution business.

WotC has done a lot of good things for the game. The magazines have also done a lot of good for the game. WotC has garnered a lot of ill will by making sure fans know they're taking away the magazines and offering us a poor substitute AND taking away our choice in the matter.

How do you know it's a poor substitute? Have you seen what DI entails?

If the electronic content is truly superior, if they ran them side by side and the magazines ceased to be profitable, they'd have an undeniable excuse to cancel the magazines. Very few people expect a business to keep doing something that loses money. Those that do are unreasonable.

See earlier comments in this thread and others about profit margins. Obviously, WotC thinks DI will serve profit margins better. Running both means that one will almost certainly fail due to unnecessary competition.

I'd say that WotC has ticked off a lot of reasonable people. Now, maybe they 'know something that [we] don't know'. Maybe not. I know I'm pretty sick and tired of hearing that they know what customers want and yet, I keep getting really angry with them. I've kept buying WotC products that I think could be vastly improved. I can't believe that they release books without an index. Still, I've bought them because WotC makes D&D, and I play D&D. Well, I have enough books, so I won't keep buying from a company that cares so little for me as a customer.

And while I'm still angry about the cancellation of the magazines, I'm starting to really become happy that I won't be buying any more of these books. While it will be greatly disturbing not to have the magazines for a few months, I think they'll come back.

This is a monumentally bad decision, but the 'powers that be' are determined not to see it. Time will tell who is right and who is not. I had hoped they would choose to avoid the mistake, rather than disregard the kind wishes from everybody who hoped they would change their mind before the mistake was 'unreversible'. That won't happen.

It doesn't sound like you're being reasonable at all - you're ascribing value-laden things like 'ticked off' and 'angry' when you talk about this, which is pretty much the opposite of rational and reasonable. You're making conclusions based on what you think - unless you, again, have some inside line, in which case I'm sure we here at ENWorld would dearly love to get some information. You've already decided, though, and that's not a reasonable reaction at all, it's emotional.

There is a fundamental disconnect somewhere between what customers want and what WotC thinks customers want. I don't know where it comes from, but eventually they'll figure it out, or they'll spin D&D off and another company will pick it up, and maybe, just maybe, do it right.

Again, this is an entirely emotional statement. It's understandable to be upset - I am, I like the magazines - but making sweeping statements, broad generalizations and veiled accusations helps no one, it just continues the atmosphere that necessitated Russ and company having to act as referees in what's become an increasingly insane-sounding debacle.

 

[Hussar]

WotC has garnered a lot of ill will by making sure fans know they're taking away the magazines and offering us a poor substitute AND taking away our choice in the matter.

I'm not sure if you can make that assumption. You have not seen what the substitute is, so, calling it poor beforehand is difficult. It might be a poor substitute or it might be better or it might be the same. At the moment, we simply do not know.

If the electronic content is truly superior, if they ran them side by side and the magazines ceased to be profitable, they'd have an undeniable excuse to cancel the magazines.

Actually, no they didn't. They only hold the license, they did not publish Dungeon or Dragon. What they could have done is hang Paizo out to dry by offering identical content online with additional content being added in. Paizo could have been sunk by this. Instead, they gave Paizo the out, let them have all the good publicity in the world at a time when they really needed it (just before GAMA) and took a pretty serious hit because of it.

It appears that you have already made up your mind that an online version of the magazine will be inherently inferior. I suggest that perhaps waiting to see what is offered before engraving that into your psyche might be an idea.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

Actually, no they didn't. They only hold the license, they did not publish Dungeon or Dragon. What they could have done is hang Paizo out to dry by offering identical content online with additional content being added in. Paizo could have been sunk by this. Instead, they gave Paizo the out, let them have all the good publicity in the world at a time when they really needed it (just before GAMA) and took a pretty serious hit because of it.

And yet Paizo has said that they would continue if they could. Paizo obviously thinks that the magazines can still be profitable even with the DI. It seems much more of a WotC descision than anything to do with making Paizo happy.

 

[deadDMwalking]

To be upset, or even ticked off, does not imply that the reaction has not been reasoned.

After hearing the news, my initial reaction was to be upset. But then I thought about it. I read everything that had been posted on the subject officially. I sent letters to WotC and Hasbro, and received a reply back.

Now, when I am upset, it is the end result as a rational and reasonable person. Reasonable people have emotions. It would be unreasonable to assume they don't. The magazines are important to the hobby on an emotional and physical level.

As for myself, yes, I have decided that electronic content is, for me, inferior. There are electronic versions of various books that I've been given for free. I don't use them. I buy the book if I want the material. I open the book if I want to read the material.

As for NDAs, I'm quite familiar with them.
The following link describes them in some detail, and was the quickest thing I could link to after a Google search.

Now, the NDA should be used to avoid releasing proprietary information. The most important reason is to avoid creating undue competition. The thing about the NDA is that it prevents talking about some things and not others. Now, those under the NDA could avoid talking about anything that isn't specifically detailed to avoid 'giving hints' about what is covered, but the 'cat is out of the bag'. They're willing to say there is a DI, that the content will be electronic, that many of the features are not firmly decided, etc. There is quite a bit of information.

It is even possible that the NDA specifically prohibits explaining why an online only model is considered superior by WotC. Still, I don't believe that is the case. They have not said anything that DIRECTLY supports that statement. Some people may want to give the company the benefit of the doubt - I don't. It isn't because I'm never wrong. It's because the company has already lost my trust before this issue in other ways.

I proudly subscribe to both magazines. I know that puts me into a 'minority' category of gamers. WotC has told me that my 'minority' doesn't matter to them. While that may not have been their intended message, that's what I keep hearing.

So, I'm upset. But not without reason.

 

[Khairn]

I have to say it still boggles my mind that with over a year to plan for both the announcement of the cancellation, and the announcement of a new DI, that WotC is unprepared to provide their customers with no information regarding its content or format.

/boggle

 

[Nebulous]

I have to say it still boggles my mind that with over a year to plan for both the announcement of the cancellation, and the announcement of a new DI, that WotC is unprepared to provide their customers with no information regarding its content or format.

/boggle

Yes, that is somewhat odd. But i'm going to wait for my final opinion until i see what both Pathfinder and WotC has to offer. I won't even subscribe to Pathfinder yet, i'll pick an issue up when it goes on sale at the hobby shop. It does sound great, i'm just worried that such as huge Adventure Path will be more than is needed. And what will happen to all the people that also want to read the AP, but are also currently playing in it? It just remains to be seen how this will pan out.

 

[Dire Bare]

6. (finally) Bundling. If the DI includes games that I have no use for but I still have to pay a full subscription to get what I do want to see, you won't see me paying for it. On the magazine rack I see (or at least for a few more months will see) Dungeon, Dragon and then magazines for the other games put out by WotC that I couldn't have less interest in. I won't start insulting players or designers of other games with my reasons for why, but I play D&D/RPG's and I am NOT interested in paying any sort of money to see them combined with other games that I despise in many ways. I am sure that many of the players of those 'other' games feel the same way about my D&D and wouldn't want to pay to get access to their content mixed in with mine. If Wizards put out a general magazine with content for *all* of their games, I don't think it would have the success of their specialty mags.

I don't understand this reasoning either.

Let's say that WotC includes D&D content equal in amount to what we currently have in both Dragon and Dungeon. Then they also add a Polyhedron section for non-D&D d20 gaming, and maybe lots of space towards industry news and even non d20 games.

And it costs the same or less than a sub to Dragon and Dungeon.

Will people bitch about the non D&D content? Oh yes they will. It will make no sense, but they will.

When Dungeon included Polyhedron and non-D&D d20 games, I could understand people's complaints (to a point) that an article on d20 WWII takes up space that a D&D article or adventure could have filled. I didn't agree with them, but at least I saw the reasoning.

But with an electronic format, magazine space is no longer an issue (no pun intended).

I am actively HOPING that the forthcoming "Digital Initiative" will include not only a "Dragon" section and a "Dungeon" section, but also a "Polyhedron" section and a "Star Wars" section. Plus any other gaming goodness WotC decides to throw our way.

But of course, since we don't know the details yet, we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Hussar]

And, of course Dire Bear, even the current issues of Dragon have a small amount of non-D&D material in them as it is. The First Watch section is around half d20 oriented, there's been a page of PC gaming goodies in most issues, and, then, of course, there have been articles like Silicon Sorcery and the book reviews as well. Never mind that about one issue in three had fiction in it.

Right now, when I go to the WOTC site, I see links for a whole host of games that I don't play - DDM, Avalon Hill, Magic, etc. But, since I don't play those games, I just don't click those links. I'm really wondering what the problem is here.

As to the lack of information, well, again, they've got four MONTHS to go before this is even open. Yes, we don't have information RIGHT NOW, but, then again, that doesn't mean anything other than the fact that they haven't given us information.

 

[Jim Hague]

To be upset, or even ticked off, does not imply that the reaction has not been reasoned.

After hearing the news, my initial reaction was to be upset. But then I thought about it. I read everything that had been posted on the subject officially. I sent letters to WotC and Hasbro, and received a reply back.

Now, when I am upset, it is the end result as a rational and reasonable person. Reasonable people have emotions. It would be unreasonable to assume they don't. The magazines are important to the hobby on an emotional and physical level.

Thing is, the way you're describing it isn't rational - it's an emotional reaction. I felt much the same way, honestly. The importance of the magazines to the hobby as a whole is highly debateable - especially since their shift to a D&D-only format, or nearly so.

As for myself, yes, I have decided that electronic content is, for me, inferior. There are electronic versions of various books that I've been given for free. I don't use them. I buy the book if I want the material. I open the book if I want to read the material.

And that's fine...as long as it's an admitted personal preference. For me, I like having all my options open, electronic, print, whatever. I dearly treasure my Dragons and Dungeons, right alongside my CD collection of Dragon back issues.

As for NDAs, I'm quite familiar with them.
The following link describes them in some detail, and was the quickest thing I could link to after a Google search.

Now, the NDA should be used to avoid releasing proprietary information. The most important reason is to avoid creating undue competition. The thing about the NDA is that it prevents talking about some things and not others. Now, those under the NDA could avoid talking about anything that isn't specifically detailed to avoid 'giving hints' about what is covered, but the 'cat is out of the bag'. They're willing to say there is a DI, that the content will be electronic, that many of the features are not firmly decided, etc. There is quite a bit of information.

It is even possible that the NDA specifically prohibits explaining why an online only model is considered superior by WotC. Still, I don't believe that is the case. They have not said anything that DIRECTLY supports that statement. Some people may want to give the company the benefit of the doubt - I don't. It isn't because I'm never wrong. It's because the company has already lost my trust before this issue in other ways.

I proudly subscribe to both magazines. I know that puts me into a 'minority' category of gamers. WotC has told me that my 'minority' doesn't matter to them. While that may not have been their intended message, that's what I keep hearing.

So, I'm upset. But not without reason.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Being a freelancer and running my own company, I'm familiar with the kinds of NDAs the hobby/industry/whatever produces - and what's been released is consistent with a fairly restrictive NDA. It's not unreasonable to think that WotC may be worried that someone could get the jump on them with the DI, since other companies have a bit of a leg up in Web and online presence. You may not like it, but it's understandable on a corporate level.

What well and truly bothers me is the attitude that, somehow, the folks at WotC doing D&D have somehow become 'the enemy'. I think that pulling in the license and cancelling the magazines was a mistake...but assuming that there's some sort of evil corporatism afoot is at best naieve and at worse strays into sheer lunacy. WotC is in the business of making money, and that means getting with the program to expand their online presence. Whether the DI will or won't do this is something that remains to be seen.

 

[Khairn]

I don't understand this reasoning either.

Let's say that WotC includes D&D content equal in amount to what we currently have in both Dragon and Dungeon. Then they also add a Polyhedron section for non-D&D d20 gaming, and maybe lots of space towards industry news and even non d20 games.

And it costs the same or less than a sub to Dragon and Dungeon.

Will people bitch about the non D&D content? Oh yes they will. It will make no sense, but they will.

.

I believe the statement was written not to exclude D20 Modern, RPGA, Star Wars etc from the DI. But instead to question the relevance of including Neo-Pets, Duel Masters, Transformers, Magic the Gathering and other non-RPG's in any subscription price. In everything that's been written by WotC about the DI, I haven't seen anything that said it would only be RPG material.

If there is an idea to include other WotC product lines in the DI I would like to know if I can opt out of those I have no interest in playing and only subscribe to the RPG material.