Intimidate with STR

[Darklone]

Yeah. Heros have high Charisma. They suck at fighting and get whooped in major battles, but they look fine while they go down.

And they get the medals later.

 

[Three_Haligonians]

Mixing Stats and Skills

First of all, on page 33 in the 3.5 DMG, there is a variant section that discusses using abilities with skills that they are not normally keyed to, and it gives a few examples. For instance, in the games I lead, PC's have often gone to a local library to research the various clues they've picked up. This created a "research check" house-rule that is a Gather Information check based on Int instead of Cha (and they don't have to pay any money). So to me, A character using Str instead of Cha for their intimidate checks seems to fit in with this idea nicely.

As for barbarians with a Cha of 6 who are dumb-looking, it is true that their screaming madly won't be that intimidating, however if this same barbarian had a 22 Str and managed to bend the guy's sword in half... that's a different story.

Lastly, the idea that this kind of intimidation won't work because it will just make the person scream and run away or faint or whatever, well that's what would happen if the character -failed- their Str based intimidate, just like if they failed their cha based one and the target wasn't fooled or scared by their threats, blackmail, etc.


J from Three Haligonians

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

If you do allow str for intimidate it would allow Giants and Dragons to use their intimidate skill to make you shaken with fear rather easily.

Sure, that is a standard action that they haven't used to pound you, but the d20 check will be too high to resist if it uses their enormous str modifier.

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Imo, this desire to use str seems to spring from the player who dumps on charisma for their fighter-type character and then realizes that the bard (for e.g.) has a greater intimidate score.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I think using Str is a bad idea. It's just another reason to make Cha your dump stat.

 

[Ottergame]

Itimidation isn't being a big strong brute to break peoples arms and legs to get what you want, that's tortue. Intimidation is the -threat- of harm. You can pound your chest and scream and rage all you want, that's not going to scare someone like a person who knows the right words to chill a man.

 

[Three_Haligonians]

Itimidation isn't being a big strong brute to break peoples arms and legs to get what you want, that's tortue. Intimidation is the -threat- of harm. You can pound your chest and scream and rage all you want, that's not going to scare someone like a person who knows the right words to chill a man.

Pounding your chest and screaming is a cha based intimidation. We're talking about breaking a table, or EXHIBITING your str in some way. Aside from that, torture does intimidate. That's why torture is used. To get info.

R from Three Haligonians

 

[reapersaurus]

It's a Variant Rule sidebar in Masters of the Wild, page 18.

Thank goodness they put it somewhere.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Pounding your chest and screaming is a cha based intimidation. We're talking about breaking a table, or EXHIBITING your str in some way. Aside from that, torture does intimidate. That's why torture is used. To get info.

But the point is that Barbarians generally don't tie up opponents, drag them down to their torture chamber, and then intimidate them to get answers. Barbarians generally use Intimidate in the thick of battle, where there is rarely a table or a metal bar sitting there to be broken or bent in half. But in each case, it would hardly be an intimidate check with Strength as the key ability score- it would be a Strength check, first, to do the feat of strength, and then an intimidate check using his charisma modifier (as normal) with a circumstance bonus for the action he just performed. After all, if a Barbarian with no presence that comes off as a dumb oaf breaks a table and then roars at you, it'll be intimidating, no doubt. However, if a Barbarian that has an aura of destruction and amazing presence rips a metal bar apart with his bare hands, it's definitely going to be more intimidating than the other guy.

In short, don't switch around the ability scores. Charisma is just as important, if not moreso, than Strength. And bending a guy's sword in half is completely out of the question. First he'd have to make a sunder attack with his bare hands (which would incur an attack of opportunity unless he has both the Improved Sunder and Improved Unarmed Strike feats), THEN make a Strength check (opposed by his opponent's Dexterity check, of course, since his opponent isn't just gonna stand there and let him bend his sword), and THEN an intimidate check. I can see him taking damage somewhere in that too, even without an attack of opportunity, as it's not that easy to bend a sharpened blade with your bare hands without cutting yourself.

 

[Plane Sailing]

First of all, on page 33 in the 3.5 DMG, there is a variant section that discusses using abilities with skills that they are not normally keyed to, and it gives a few examples.

Exactly.

It is a DM specific issue, and if the DM decides that in a particular circumstance it warrants it, then fine. It doesn't need to be written down anywhere else because the DMG specifically allows the DM (not the player!) to determine if another attribute is appropriate in a given situation.

Trust your DM, your DM is your friend.

 

[Shader]

Cheers

Thanks guys, at least I know it's out there now. I felt sure it was.

You can argue until you're blue in the face whether or not it's a good or a bad thing, but I think it really is valid.

Charisma-Intimidate should be the subtle, the persuasion, the manipulation. Grima Wormtongue. The threat of surprises or nastiness if you don't do what is asked of you.

Strength-Intimidate should be as valid, but for the less subtle, more threatening approach. You can still intimidate someone by a display of strength. If you don't think so, surely the guy with the huge muscles pounding his fist into the palm of his other hand and asking for your money isn't trying to sweet-talk you?

Likewise someone here has pointed out the use of Gather Information and Intelligence for research in a library, another excellent indication of how you can adapt the rules so suit another situation.

Sometimes these things just can't be black and white.

Thanks for all your help guys.