Intimidate with STR

[DreamChaser]

Welcome to the boards, Henry.

You wandered into quite the debate (which is useless, as we've been told rudely and repeatedly, but we're still enjoying it, none the less.)

I like the way you phrased that, distinguishing between "being intimidating" (or being scary) and the Intimidate skill.

DC

 

[Bauglir]

Excellent post Henry, my thoughts exactly (only put way more eloquently than I could have ever managed )

Welcome to the boards.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Yeah but str is naturally intimidating.

I'm afraid I have to disagree.

An Iron Bar, I'm sure we can all agree, is strong. It's very strong. It's so strong it's kept prisoners in their cells for centuries. And yet, if I saw an iron bar sitting on a table, I wouldn't be the least bit scared.

I know you're all laughing at how horrible of an example you think that was. But was it? Let's say, instead of an iron bar, it were an iron person. I litte iron figurine, lifeless, and sitting there. I still wouldn't be intimidated. Why? Because it isn't doing anything. Okay. Make it move. Now, it's a little moving wind-up iron guy. Okay, it's a toy soldier. Ooh, scary. For some reason, it still isn't intimidating. What is he missing?

Well, he's got Strength, and he's got Dexterity. He hasn't got a constitution score, but something tells me that making him a little moving blob of flesh isn't going to help him out. What else is he missing? Mental ability scores.

Let's give him Intelligence and Wisdom. (And, as spelled out in the Monster Manual, a creature with Wisdom has to have Charisma. Let's just give him a charisma of 1 to keep it simple.) Now, he can perform thought processes and (vaguely) distinguish between himself and others. He can repeat things back to you, add numbers, do menial chores, and so on. If you tell him to say, "Give me all of your money," he'll say it. Heck, he might even say it on his own. Either way, it's a flat, monotone "Give me all of your money."

He's a bit more intimidating than he was before (as he now has thought), but still not very. Hmm. Let's give him more strength. Make him bigger. Make him human-sized, but with arms the size of beer kegs. Now, he's a big, iron person. And when he walks up to you, he says in the same, monotone voice, "Give me all of your money."

Alright, people are getting scared. At least, somewhat. They're getting a bit uneasy when around him, but if you really think about it, it's purely because they don't know who or what he is. Ignorance is more intimidating than anything else. However, whenever he asks for money, it's the same monotonous, boring tone. "Give me all of your money."

The reason? Because he can't distinguish between himself and others. He could probably punch a hole in a brick wall, but he doesn't know how to get people to do what he wants to do. Buff up his strength even more, but it's still gonna be the same, "Give me all of your money." Nope. "Give me all of your money." Nah. "Give me all of your money." Still the same boring, boring, boring iron guy.

Let's pump up his charisma a bit. Now, when he says, "Give me your money," he really means it. He sounds imposing. He sounds threatening. He's got just as many muscles as before, but he's just got more... presence. He's got more vigor. He emphasizes the "GIVE ME all of your money!".

I know it's a bit strange, but think about it. If he were a scrawny iron guy, he might not be as threatening when you see him coming down the hall, but it really wasn't his Strength that made him threatening in the first place- it was his Charisma.

I actually think Henry Hankovich summed it up really well. I just had to point out the inherent idiocy of the statement, "Strength is naturally intimidating."

 

[Kalendraf]

I'm coming into this rather late. I skimmed thru the responses, but didn't see anyone mention the Quintessential Barbarian. It breaks Intimidation into 6 separate skills, each one keyed to a different stat. You can buy points in each.

Using this approach, it would be theoretically possible for the DM to assign different DCs to each. For example a certain foe might be very easily Coerced (cha) but resist being Bullied (str), while another might be more easily Terrorized (int) or Admonished (wis). I actually like the concept behind breaking up the Intimidate skill like this, but have not tried to implement it in any campaign yet.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

The whole issue of changing stats for skills for circumstances, while supported as an option in the dmg, seems to be a lot of work for such little gain.

(Support for Henry Hankovich's articulation )

Another possible issue is the perception by some of charisma as a poncy flair found in pretty boys. While this can be true, I would point to Count Dracula or Darth Vader as figures I believe have impressive charisma (and probably intimidate) scores.

Otoh, the negative modifier to charisma is seen by some as ugliness and being rough as guts. The thought is that such a figure should have an easier time scaring others around them and thus get a bonus to intimidate. I believe that such figures would fill the role of goons and toughs; able to bully others under threat of direct violence but their victims are not cowed afterwards (and seek justice via wandering adventurers ).

In short I believe that the fearsome warrior archetype possesses great charisma, not dumps on it.

 

[ThoughtBubble]

I am so up for intimidating using STR if you can convince my next DM to allow my Wis bonus to hit and AC because I'm percieving what they're doing, and thus better able to counter their actions.

Ultimately, the biggest problem I have with this is if you have a high Cha guy in the group, it may feel like a ripoff to have the guy reaping the benifits of a high Str also getting a bonus to intimidate.

 

[Shader]

Ultimately, the biggest problem I have with this is if you have a high Cha guy in the group, it may feel like a ripoff to have the guy reaping the benifits of a high Str also getting a bonus to intimidate.

I don't think this is such a problem. If I want to play a smooth, charismatic and slimy guy who can intimidate with his words and his attitude, then I'd love to. But if I wanted to play a huge f*** off barbarian who could flex his muscles and intimidate people, then I want the option of playing him, too.

 

[Ottergame]

I don't think this is such a problem. If I want to play a smooth, charismatic and slimy guy who can intimidate with his words and his attitude, then I'd love to. But if I wanted to play a huge f*** off barbarian who could flex his muscles and intimidate people, then I want the option of playing him, too.

You still do have that option, and you can easily spend the points for Intimidate, but you should NOT be as good as someone who's very charismatic at intimidating people. Big stupid brutes pounding their chests are not as scarry as a man who is good with words convincing you that if you do not cooperate, you're family might come to harm.

 

[Thanee]

In short I believe that the fearsome warrior archetype possesses great charisma, not dumps on it.

100% agree!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Drakh]

heres some rules for using STR to "enhance" intimitdate checks while using the rules provided.

1) Visual Strength: As a full round action you can demonstrate your strength on an item to help intimidate the opponent with fear of using that strength to hurt them. Make a Str check vs the targets sense motive check, +4 per size category you are bigger than the opponent. This requires the destruction of an item within your grasp, be it a chair, a dead goblins leg, or a small stick (threats like "ill stap your neck like this twig if you dont tell me what i want to know" will often be as affective as bending an iron bar).
Success: You count your size as being one size category higher (+4) on all subsequent intimidate checks with the target.
Failure: Target does not believe you will hurt them and will not be threatened with a retry.

2) Actual Strength: You can physically threaten your target. You must be able to grab the target and either cause pain or place an item against them that could cause them harm. To do this you must initiate a grapple with the opponent. once you have a hold of them you make a str check vs the targets sense motive check, +4 per size category you are larger than the opponent.
Success: You gain a +4 circumstance bonus to the check.
Failure: Target does not believe you will hurt them and only actual harm will make them believe you and they get a free attempt to break the hold.

1) and 2) are both cumulative with each other - smashing the kobolds spear and then grabing its arm and threatening to treat it the same can work wonders

These rules can be used by all but its gonna be of more benefit to say Chewbacca than C3P0.

Another Enhancement to Intimidate checks is Torture.

3) Torture: You use Torture devices to intimidate your target. The use of devices is an evil act... Full details of using Torture is listed in the Book of Vile Darkness suppliment and due to the nature of this subject i will refrain from going into detail here.

I personally like this enhancement than actually using Strength instead of charisma.