Introducing fantasy RPGs to religious players

[Thunderfoot]

Let me be the voice of dissent in this volleyball game of words. You may not be able to include this person in your game. Although I am a minister for a Chrisitian faith and several (read most) of my players are of like minded and similar background, we have run into other persons of a similar background who just see the hobby as wrong. Many religions have tenants against the use of magic in any form, blasphemy in any form, or idol worship in any form; and though it may be easy to see that this is "just a game", the human mind isn't always so easy to convince. To some, the mention of the use of magic in any form; the act of "pretending" to worship or any mannerism related to the falsification of a real world style of religion (ie, momtheism, polythieism, paganism, druidism and shamanism); or the pretense of blasphemous acts (necromancy, divination, arcane knowledge, demonology, etc) are dangerous ground - similar in aspect to marijuana as a "gateway drug" to other more dangerous drugs.

I'm sure all of you would disagree with this statement, however, marijuana users disavow "gateway" mentality of their substance. But the problem is, there IS the potential there. Each person reacts differently to different stimuli. I actually know of one of those "evil, twisted gamers who lost his mind because of the game." The actual case was the person was suffering from undiagnosed mental problems prior to playing, but the game opened his imaginiation into, at that time, unplyed depths. He literally suffered from waking dillusions and hallucinations as a result of the game. Is this the normal response - obviously not, but it is THEORETICALLY possilbe. I have seen people turn away from their religions in favor of paganism and druidism because of their contact with people who embraced those religions because of game contact. It is the FEAR of this kind of conversion and openess of ideals that the zealot fears. Your friend MAY know that this is a weakness of his and may wish to avoid contact of "pretend" religions so that he won't open himself up to "theocratical soiling" in his real world religion.

My advice would be to allow him to watch the game as played in a regular setting, religions included and if he declines, let the issue rest. A true friend would find other ways to connect and have fun, without offending a person's beliefs or trampling on their fears. (Not saying that is what you are doing but, just making a statement to show how others can sometimes view our actions, regardless of their intent.)

I hope I haven't strayed to close to the no religion rule. My intent was not to defame or infer that any religion is greater, better, worse or wrong. Examples above are for examples sake only and if anyone is offend, I will pull this post at the request of the moderators. Happy gaming.

 

[Tinner]

As a deeply religous gamer myself, I have dealt with this time and time again.
(Try teaching people to game at a fundamentalist Bible college if you really want a challenge! )
I would avoid fantasy like the plague to start with, especially WFRP! The very basis of the Warhammer world is polytheistic, and filled with cults worshipping false gods, etc.
I agree with the posters who reccomend a sci-fi game. Super Heroes might be a viable alternative as well. Even the d20 Modern game, or Spycraft might be a better introduction.
If a player is hesitant about gaming because he's heard it's "evil" or "demonic" or because of any other religious overtones, it doesn't matter how often you tell him "It's all make believe."
He's going to have to see first hand that it's just a game, and it can't hurt him, or damage his faith. Once he's cut his teeth on a game with NO religon in it at all, then you might be able to slowly introduce the concept.
But until he can see for himself that gaming is "religiously safe" I wouldn't attempt a fantasy game of any kind.
Good luck. YMMV.

 

[Thunderfoot]

I would probably take the player aside and as calmlu and politely as possible, explain to him that it's a

GAME!!!!

It's FAKE. It's NOT REAL. It's MAKE BELIEVE!

So as you can tell, no, I've never had that problem in one of my games.

That isn't helping! - and your lack of compassion towards other people disturbs me.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

That isn't helping! - and your lack of compassion towards other people disturbs me.

FWIW, I agree with GlassJaw. Presumably this guy is an adult. Treat him like one. Explain that RPGs have fictional religious elements, play the game you and the others want to play, and he either can deal with it or not. It has nothing to do with compassion. It has to do with him being as tolerant of your lifestyle as you are trying to be of his. I wouldn't go out of my way to rub his nose in it, but I wouldn't strip all pseudo-religious elements from my game, either.

I've been in similar situations a time or three. Each time, the prospective player was told what the games were like, loaned the rulebook, and allowed to make their own decision. In most cases, the prospective player was cool with it after reading the book and had a great time. In one, the player said he was ok with the game and then proceeded to bring his real-world religious beliefs into the game in a disruptive way. He was politely asked to leave, and that was that.

If someone was a rabid vegetarian and said 'Oh, I want to game, but the other players can't eat meat at the table', would you force the others to accomodate them? (This, by the way, actually happened to me once in college.)

 

[PJ-Mason]

Well i am glad i am not your position, Jurgen. I admire you for giving it a try.
You have to have the right group, too. This wouldn't work with my group, as no subject is taboo and over-sensitive people would get laughed at.

I agree with the others that say to avoid religion or use it lightly at first. Though i would caution aganist hedging your games TOO much. If this player has any brains in his head, he might be able to see that your holding back and that might backfire on you. He might think you are trying to bait him into something so you can corrupt him later on or something. You are better off playing something that doesn't have religion built into the game, like a sci fi game or something. Thats your best bet i think.

Like i said, i am glad its you and not me. Trying to convert someone to common sense (which is really what you are trying to do here) is not at all easy. Its certaintly not what i would consider to be fun on game night. Good luck.

 

[HellHound]

Personally, I would run a game is a customized cosmology - fantasy does not need gods and divine magic, IMO.

I agree that WHFRP2 is a great system to introduce with. I would just tweak the game world and lose all the religious aspects, but leave Chaos, just not the chaos gods.

Get rid of gods, get rid of 'evil gods', get rid of cults, definitely get rid of priests / clerics / etc... ditch the whole divine element and run with it. There are more than enough fantasy memes to go around without using the evil cleric or evil god or evil cult as the driving villain. Heck, stick to the self-centred autocrat as the villain.

I've run fantasy games with no religious / divine elements in the past, and I don't see it being very difficult to do again.

 

[HellHound]

If someone was a rabid vegetarian and said 'Oh, I want to game, but the other players can't eat meat at the table', would you force the others to accomodate them? (This, by the way, actually happened to me once in college.)

If I was interested in getting them to try gaming, then yes. I would ask the other players if they have any interest in getting person X to try out gaming, and if so, to respect their needs for those sessions.

If you WANT to introduce someone to gaming, what harm is there in changing your game and game table to suit this introduction? Why not give it a try, see if it works, and at least give person X the chance to discover gaming?

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

How does the player respond to real people who have different religious beliefs than him?

He doesn't have any problems with us - he knows I am an agnostic, and there is also a Baptist and a Hindu in our department. We have some discussions about religion from time to time, but so far it has always been civil.

Can he watch movies like Troy and Lord of the Rings without his sensibilities being offended?

Yes.

A couple of points:

- I do not wish to let him "merely watch" for our initial game, because he has been the most interested in role-playing games. Apart from the religious issues, he seems to be quite enthusiastic about the whole concept, and having enthusiastic players is always good in my opinion. If I have to accomodate him a bit, then so be it.

- I have considered a science fiction setting, but those tend to have a rather large learning curve until you have a grasp of the equipment, culture, and society. Fantasy, especially pseudo-historical fantasy like Warhammer, is much easier to get into.

- And from our group, I am the only anime enthusiast. This guy is vaguely aware of anime - he has worked in Japan for a couple of months - but he hasn't any in-depth knowledge of anime tropes (though he has become aware of hentai over there... though he knows that's not all there is to anime).

- Finally, I think the main problem is that he simply has no experience at all with RPGs yet. I've tried to explain it to him, but I think I haven't brought the point about "getting into character" yet. I think that once he knows precisely how it works, it won't be an issue any more. Until then, I'll accomodate him.

 

[derbacher]

Personally, I would run a game is a customized cosmology - fantasy does not need gods and divine magic, IMO.

I agree that WHFRP2 is a great system to introduce with. I would just tweak the game world and lose all the religious aspects, but leave Chaos, just not the chaos gods.

Get rid of gods, get rid of 'evil gods', get rid of cults, definitely get rid of priests / clerics / etc... ditch the whole divine element and run with it. There are more than enough fantasy memes to go around without using the evil cleric or evil god or evil cult as the driving villain. Heck, stick to the self-centred autocrat as the villain.

I've run fantasy games with no religious / divine elements in the past, and I don't see it being very difficult to do again.

Now maybe I'm wrong, but it seems as if you are saying that Everyone Else who is enjoying the game as played should change to accommodate the New Player, who may or may not continue in the game? Isn't this overkill? It seems you're jeopardizing your current group for the possibility of adding a new player.

Religious issues aside, this doesn't seem like the best way to keep a game going. Honestly show him how you and your group play. Explain how the themes and concepts are just ways to interact with the game. Don't change the fun of the many for the fun of the few (or the one).

 

[farscapesg1]

I have to agree with Thunderfoot on this. His standpoint is not only compassionate, but very well thought out.

The "it's just a game" works for many of us, but everyone is not the same. Some people have stronger religious ties than others. Some of those religions are also a lot stricter. Even within the "Christian" religions (Luthern, Methodist, Catholic, etc.) there are stong differences.

Everyone needs to be compassionate to each other's beliefs. If you are trying to get a vegetarian to learn the game and they don't want anyone eating meat at the table, try to work out a solution. Maybe half the gaming sessions the group can eat non-meat snacks instead of chicken wings? Always provide something for the vegetarian of the group? Heck, they might even notice that they are loosing a little bit of weight from the better diet (and no, I'm not vegetarian).

Most of us are adults (or at least young adults) and need to realize that life is about compromises. What does it hurt to try to make sure that the other people in the group feel comfortable with the game?