Introducing fantasy RPGs to religious players

[HellHound]

Now maybe I'm wrong, but it seems as if you are saying that Everyone Else who is enjoying the game as played should change to accommodate the New Player, who may or may not continue in the game? Isn't this overkill? It seems you're jeopardizing your current group for the possibility of adding a new player.

That's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying if I *want* to introduce a new player who has specific issues to RPGs, I'll do EVERYTHING in my power to make the game enjoyable to this person, and will ask the other players to do the same. Those that don't want to do so are quite welcome to not play in this particular game. I am not saying that I would drop my normal game for this, nor jeopardize my gaming group to add a new player.... I am saying that I would create a new gaming group (even if thsi 'new' group includes most of my old group, but in a differnt setting) to give this new player a chance to see what the game is like.

If the new player DOES like it, then I explain to him or her that my regular gaming group does NOT play like this. At my regular table, we do eat meat, and I won't ask my gamers to change that for the new player. If the new player REALLY likes gaming from this initial exposure, then one of two options arise - he or she can start a new gaming group with similar needs, wants, desires or creeds, or he or she will join my other group because they have learned to enjoy the game above and beyond these limitations. If said person didn't enjoy the game enough, he or she will then move on and not game with us or a new group, but will still have had the opportunity to game.

This is missionary gaming. We game for YOU. Hopefully you will like it and begin to game with us.

This approach has worked wonders for me in the past, and has added a good 60 or 70 people to the ranks of gamers that I have gamed with, a great many of whom now game in just about any environment. I see it as a public service that I do to make people really try gaming.

Why coddle people?

Because I *really* believe that we should be trying to introduce people to gaming, to increase the number of players out there, and to help bring gaming to people and places it has not been before.

I want this hobby to expand, to grow and prosper, and for that we need new players. And if we coddle them a bit on the first run through, what could the the harm POSSIBLY be?

 

[DaveMage]

I think the sci-fi suggestion is a winner.

Of course, you could embrace the religious aspects and play Testament from Green Ronin.

 

[takyris]

Ditto both S'mon and Thunderfoot. The notion of having your prayers to one true deity handled by various saints is perfectly reasonable for a Catholic, and even for non-saint-accepting Christians, there's the concept of praying to a Father figure, a Teacher figure, a Mother figure, or a Spiritual essence.

And as Thunderfoot said, loudly declaring that it's a game is not going to help in this situation. We all know what you think, Glassjaw. Telling us loudly that you don't have a problem with something doesn't help the guy who asked for help dealing with someone who does have a problem.

Honestly, I think I could sell D&D to a Christian. Have him play a paladin. "You are a soldier of righteousness, and you have the god-given ability to sense those who are truly evil. Now get out there and save the innocent and smite the wicked!" (And this would not be the time to bring up "screw the paladin" tactics in my games.) Regrettably, I don't know enough about Islam to make the same claim for a Muslim player -- I just don't know enough about the core beliefs of Islam to know whether going for "what most people call gods are saints or divine servants of the one true god, who is too powerful to worship directly" would be effective or offensive.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Now maybe I'm wrong, but it seems as if you are saying that Everyone Else who is enjoying the game as played should change to accommodate the New Player, who may or may not continue in the game? Isn't this overkill? It seems you're jeopardizing your current group for the possibility of adding a new player.

Actually, I would start an all-newbie group for this (my co-workers), so "alienating existing players" wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Psion]

And as Thunderfoot said, loudly declaring that it's a game is not going to help in this situation.

Indeed. The Last Exodus is a game. It makes a mockery of my faith. That would not be fun for me. Why should I play a game if it is not fun for me?

Honestly, I think I could sell D&D to a Christian.

I'm surprised that you think that this is an unusual occurance.

Guys, the 700 club doesn't speak for all Christianity.

 

[I'm A Banana]

IMHO, if he's nervous about playing a polytheist in a game, he's nervous for the wrong reasons. It's like acting a role; just because his imaginary guy worships multiple imaginary gods doesn't mean he has to or will or should. There is a stark divide between character and player. I'm pretty sure the people who play in FR and believe in Selune as an actual goddess are rare, at best.

Explain that it is theatre, that it is acting, that it is make-believe. Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter or Pop Culture Reference X. As a man who first played in a Catholic school, and introduced his churchgoing college friends, and who studies religion himself, draw analogies to other fictions. People generally can accept that there's reality, and there's nonreality, and that role-playing games are entrenched firmly in the latter.

If he is *still* nervous about the concept of pretending to be an imaginary man worshiping imaginary gods, I'd have him not do it. I mean, D&D can certainly accomodate monotheism -- he could be unique, or a recent convert from a newly-budding movement (that says it's harkening back to a lost tradition), etc. As long as he's comfortable with "false gods" granting similar gifts to his characters' enemies, he should be fine.

Polytheism is one of the most strongly decried "bad things" in Islam, so he might just be feeling affraid of this new thing and it's potentially harmful consequences. Making RPG's less "weird closeted affairs" and more "just like this thing in the daylight" might assauge his fears.

 

[Umbran]

Ditto both S'mon and Thunderfoot. The notion of having your prayers to one true deity handled by various saints is perfectly reasonable for a Catholic, and even for non-saint-accepting Christians, there's the concept of praying to a Father figure, a Teacher figure, a Mother figure, or a Spiritual essence.

Yes, but in the original post, the potential player in question is a Muslim. Saints aren't going to be his style. A person who grew up in a largely Christian society can probably put together an appropriate saint-based cosmology for a devout Christian, perhaps with a small amount of research. It'd require a whole lot more research to pull the same trick when you lack background knowledge of the player's tradition.

I'd personally find that being told, "It is just a game" would be far less offensive than a hackneyed attempt to mirror my personal beliefs. If you can pull it off without pulling a hatchet job, more power to you.

And as Thunderfoot said, loudly declaring that it's a game is not going to help in this situation. We all know what you think, Glassjaw.

Saying it loudly doesn't help, no. Saying it calmly and rationally is another matter.

 

[S'mon]

Yes, but in the original post, the potential player in question is a Muslim. Saints aren't going to be his style.

But Islam has angels, demons and djinni (who AFAIK are free willed in Islamic lore and can be Muslim, Satanic, or neither). And presumably he's aware that medieval Christianity had Saints (there's no reason to give Saints any supernatural powers or necessity-to-be-revered in a WHFRP game, in fact it probably works better if they don't grant powers). I don't see a problem, in that it seems like the guy's real objection is to polytheism. So, don't have polytheism & AFAICS it should be ok.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Yes, but in the original post, the potential player in question is a Muslim. Saints aren't going to be his style. A person who grew up in a largely Christian society can probably put together an appropriate saint-based cosmology for a devout Christian, perhaps with a small amount of research. It'd require a whole lot more research to pull the same trick when you lack background knowledge of the player's tradition.

BINGBINGBINGBINGBING! We have a winner!

Assuming he's a Sunni, especially, saints are just polytheism under a different name.

People can understand Fiction vs. Reality. That doesn't mean that they don't get nervous around new things. And if he's a devout guy, it's perfectly reasonable for him to be a little apprehensive. Explanation. Example. Make it not a secret. He just sounds like he's not sure that it'll be okay, though he's interested enough to give it a whirl.

And as for angels, djinni, etc? Those aren't to be worshiped, at all. They are servants, not objects of devotion. You can think they're totally awesome and sweet, but you can't ask for their intercession or their help. You ask God for help, and God tells the angels what to do.

 

[S'mon]

Assuming he's a Sunni, especially, saints are just polytheism under a different name.

Plenty of Christians (like, all Protestants) believe Saints are unnecessary/irrelevant/nonexistent, but their clearly subordinate status makes them different from polytheism AFAICS.