Introducing fantasy RPGs to religious players

[Voadam]

Presumably the guy knows it is a game. He knows it is pretend and not real. It can still be a reasonable position for him to feel it is inappropriate for him to roleplay a character who woships in contravention of his rw faith.

I would not suggest trying to insert Islam into the game. I would suggest having religion not be included in the game at all. Magic, supernatural, nonhumans, monsters, combat, politics, intrigue, discovery, looting, and roleplaying are all still available for use to create a fun game. It is like deciding whether to include psionics or not, it is easy to include or exclude religion in a campaign.

 

[S'mon]

I would not suggest trying to insert Islam into the game.

The Warhammer Known World does actually have Islam, or a facsimile thereof. Or at least it does in my copy of Warhammer Battle 2nd ed, I don't know if they retconned it.

 

[GlassJaw]

Telling us loudly that you don't have a problem with something doesn't help the guy who asked for help dealing with someone who does have a problem.

I did say in my original post that I would take the perspective player and calmly explain to him what the game involved and what he would have a problem with specifically. The caps/font in my post was for emphasis because while I was talking to him, those would be the major points I would make.

If a compromise couldn't be reached that didn't involve altering the game for everyone else involved, I would probably tell the player that maybe RPG's weren't for him. No coddling or disrespect involved.

your lack of compassion towards other people disturbs me.

Because I don't agree or understand something or merely stating fact doesn't make me incompassionate. If I tell the player that the game isn't real but he still has a problem with it, what am I suppose to do? RPG's aren't for everyone.

 

[HellHound]

If a compromise couldn't be reached that didn't involve altering the game for everyone else involved, I would probably tell the player that maybe RPG's weren't for him. No coddling or disrespect involved.

Instead of turning him off RPGs with that statement, I would suggest at lest saying that maybe the RPGs -you- run are not for him.

I personally feel that RPGs -can- be for just about everyone, all we have to do as gamers is try.

 

[Voadam]

The Warhammer Known World does actually have Islam, or a facsimile thereof. Or at least it does in my copy of Warhammer Battle 2nd ed, I don't know if they retconned it.

I know it has the Araby stuff (I have the illustrated encyclopedia), I still wouldn't recommend trying to insert it. Conflicts within DM/PC/Rulebook interpretations of the religion has a lot of potential for negative situations with somebody who is not comfortable with religions being in the game to start.

Players who are comfortable having religions in the game can have a great time delving into that stuff, but for someone who has expressed being uncomfortable with it who the DM wants to get involved in gaming it does not seem like the preferred course.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Slightly rant-y about religion below, but I hope it's more informative than inflamatory.

Plenty of Christians (like, all Protestants) believe Saints are unnecessary/irrelevant/nonexistent, but their clearly subordinate status makes them different from polytheism AFAICS.

I think you underestimate how much Islam is REALLY, VERY concerned with not being ANYTHING like ANY SORT OF polytheism. It can be said to be THE central theme of the Qur'an. There are others, but the Oneness and Completeness of One True God is repeated, reinforced, and driven home time and time again.

The opening sura of the Qur'an is pretty much concerned with devoting oneself to God and God alone and no other God and staying on the Straight and Narrow. Compared to, say, the book of Gensis, which is concerned with obeying God and listening to God and not defying God....the fall of Mankind for most Christians is disobedience. The fall of Mankind for most Muslims is Polytheism. It is a grave sin in Christianity to defy God's commands. It is a grave sin in Islam to obey any commands BUT God's. Jesus kicks the moneychangers out of the temple because they were defiling faith. Muhammad destroys the false idols of the Ka'ba because it is polytheism.

I'm not saying that Christians are somehow more permissive of false idols, but I am saying that one of the central jihads in Islam is the struggle against people who do not worship the True God; polytheists. Polytheism (or accusations thereof) have been the main reason that other versions of Islam have split from Sunni. A polytheist is one of the worst things a Muslim can be, because that is to not be a Muslim at all.

There is no such thing, in most Islam, as an intermediary between Mankind and God. No lower rungs that you can pray to. No more sympathetic ears that have powers that may help you. There is God, and God alone and no other supernatural being other than Him and what He has created, and he has not ever created anything that should be prayed to.

Yes, the theory is that Saints get their power from God and this aren't the same as Polytheism. Many Muslims would say that argument doesn't hold water. Every time you pray to a saint instead of praying to God, you are worshiping a false idol. Why not just pray to God?

Again, this isn't meant to really be an inflamatory post, just sort of reinforcing the idea that most Muslims are usually VERY hardcore on the whole propper-attribution-of-worship angle. So if he's nervous about polytheistic tendanceis, making subordinates grant spells won't really help the situation much.

That said, RPGs are in an imaginairy noplace where the usual laws of everything are entirely nonexistent, and the only laws are set down by the DM, a human being, and have no relation at all to the true laws governing the real world, whatever one believes them to be. It is inherently false, and as long as everyone knows it's inherently false, it's just playing with imagination, story, and fiction. It reflects reality no more than Tolkein does, which is to say not at all.

 

[Shemeska]

Never been a problem with me, and I play with 2 athiests, an agnostic, two Catholics, and myself (Protestant by way of Russian Orthodox). Heck, I know an Orthodox priest who would probably like to play given the exposure. After all, it's just a game, and it never makes a claim of reality.

Now I can understand the problems your Islamic potential player might have, after all given the society that Muhammad came from, his rather violent crusade against polytheism in the arab penninsula was a framing theme of the religion. That it persist's today is no surprise, but I'm sure there's ways to frame the game so that it's obvious that there isn't an conflict by intent or by happenstance.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

In terms of the fiction approach:

It seems to me to be reasonable only if you make it possible for this guy to not participate in that particular piece of the fiction.

I've gamed with plenty of religious people and adjust settings for many people's sensitivities, but religious sensitivities are probably responsible for the fewest adjustments taken as a whole.

Aesthetic adjustments are far more common.

 

[carolina]

I agreee. A science fiction based rpg is a good place to start, whether its generic d20 future or Star Wars.

If you want a fantasy world without religion, try Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time rpg. There is no organized religion, no clerics, just the stark concepts of Darkness and Light.

Generally speaking, I prefer that even semi-interested players try to take part rather than just observe, with the understanding they are free to get up and leave if the gaming experience makes them uncomfortable.

 

[Mercule]

Caveat: I'm trying to keep it nice. If you find something insulting, it's a miscommunication, not a slam.

Polytheism is something that I wrestled with quite a bit. I have a real issue with the notion of saints, angels, etc. as intermediaries. It's God/Christ or it's blasphemous, IMO. That said, I also found the notion of trying to play (as DM) God and represent his wishes/actions as rather blasphemous, too. It makes no sense to completely ignore religion in a well developed setting, either. Finally, my God is the Lord of everything, everywhere, and it is inconceivable to me that a universe exists that isn't under his will. So, what to do?

The solution I finally used for my homebrew is this: the "gods" are not gods in the sense that any monotheist would really recognize or appreciate. Rather, they represent the most potent "players" that are on the field. They are so powerful that they are physically removed from the Prime. There is still a transcendant, omnipotent entity behind creation, etc. But, just as on earth, he usually speaks through others and allows men to be the true warriors, as well as the prize. Why does he do this? Dunno, God works in mysterious ways. What lies between the little gods and God? Dunno, such is not my place to know.

The little gods IMC fall into one of three broad groups. The first is, essentially, God's prophets. Though they may are forbidden to step onto the Prime, they seek to relate God's message of goodness, etc. to their followers. It is through these supernatural beings that men are led to God. I maybe exaggerate a bit, here. The name of God is never used by these beings -- only his will and the knowledge that there is something more. Really, that's not so different from the Abrahamic faiths, though.

The second group are active deceivers. They have been damned and they are intent on taking as much creation with them. The CE fiends (little gods and demons, alike) are doing it from spite. The LE fiends(little gods and devils) are doing it to try to blackmail the creator into sparing them.

The third group are those powers who have forgotten about the ultimate war, whether through short-sightedness, forgetfulness, ennui, or petty personal interests. This is the largest group and form the religions of most people. What happens to those who follow them? Dunno, maybe a second chance, maybe not.

Short form: God is active in my world. It is his will, not his "person" that is felt. There is a recognition that there is something above the little gods. The reasons for this are not mine to know.

Now, I don't take this to an extreme. When it comes right down to it, I'm in this to cut loose, play a game, and have some fun. I just needed enough consistancy to not break my brain. The ubercosmology of my setting has only once come into play in twenty years of gaming and has never been a topic of discussion outside of that instance. I'm pretty sure none of my current players, including my wife of ten years, even knows that there is an ubercosmology.

I see no reason why the same, or a similar, notion couldn't be applied to pretty much any existing setting.

This guy sounds reasonable and rational. Give him the above idea and invite him to actually play, possibly ignoring religion by-and-large. Let him know that he is free to call "safe" at any time, and will be respected. If he has specific issues, find out what they are and try to address them -- not in a dismissive way, but with respect for his concerns.

Personally, I'd also change the game to gloss over religion as much as possible, especially at first. I'm merciless about people who want to come in and game the system or whine about "reality", there is a huge, gaping chasm of difference between that and someone who is interested but uncertain if he may be asked to do something immoral. Getting people into the game = good. Getting people to see that the game is not immoral = ++good.