invis pruge vs. spell effects

[Sir Draconion]

can invis. purge or see invis. reveal a wall of force, shield, mage armor or any other invis effect spells?
i know that invis stalkers will not be revaeled because of its natural state per invis purge but what of spells?
is there any way to see wall of force?

 

[Kaji]

No.

 

[Tyrrell]

Kaji, can you back that up please? I'd always thought that see invisible did allow you to see sheild spells and walls of force.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Actually, while it's not in the SRD, I believe the MM entry states that creatures who can See Invisible can see an invisible stalker as a misty form? (IDHTBIFOM, sorry.)

The invisibility can't be purged - imagine that when you "switch off" its invisibility, it switches straight back on again - but it can be 'seen through' with See Invisible.

Regarding Wall of Force - if you rule that someone with SI can see a Wall of Force... can they see through it as well? Do they see it as a solid barrier, or as very-slightly-dirty glass? Would they still be subject to gaze attacks from someone on the other side?

-Hyp.

 

[Kaji]

Why See Invisibilty Does't reveal a Wall of Force

Tyrrell,

The effects Sir Draconian are talking about are not "invisible" in a game sense. A Shield spell, for example, is an abjuration force effect, per the spell type. It does not have another form to view it in, it is not a "Thing" but an effect. Likewise with a Wall of Force, it's not a Wall of Iron that has been made invisible, but a Force effect again that has no other non-invisible form. That's my story and I'm sticking too it, although I appreciate you making me think about it more

 

[Kaji]

Actually, while it's not in the SRD, I believe the MM entry states that creatures who can See Invisible can see an invisible stalker as a misty form? (IDHTBIFOM, sorry.)

The invisibility can't be purged - imagine that when you "switch off" its invisibility, it switches straight back on again - but it can be 'seen through' with See Invisible.

Regarding Wall of Force - if you rule that someone with SI can see a Wall of Force... can they see through it as well? Do they see it as a solid barrier, or as very-slightly-dirty glass? Would they still be subject to gaze attacks from someone on the other side?

-Hyp.

The spell description for Wall of Force mentions Gaze Attacks in particular, and it says they CAN pass through a Wall of Force. You can already see through the Wall of Force

 

[Hypersmurf]

The spell description for Wall of Force mentions Gaze Attacks in particular, and it says they CAN pass through a Wall of Force. You can already see through the Wall of Force

You'll note that I said "if you rule that someone with SI can see a Wall of Force"...

Since you don't, "You can already see through the Wall of Force" is particularly unhelpful in answering the question

-Hyp.

 

[Kaji]

You'll note that I said "if you rule that someone with SI can see a Wall of Force"...

Since you don't, "You can already see through the Wall of Force" is particularly unhelpful in answering the question

-Hyp.

Naughty me, I did not read your question carefully enough

But your question gets a bit to my point. There is no "other form", the thing was never solid in the first place, and ruling SI now gives it some opaque form doen not seem right to me. SI is good for Invisible things, not unseeable force effects. Besides, its a 2nd level spell, and as a game balance thing, I just don't buy it. Now if we were having this same discussion about True Seeing, now that would be something different.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Besides, its a 2nd level spell, and as a game balance thing, I just don't buy it.

The "no other form" argument I can understand, though I think I'd tend to go with the dirty-glass solution myself... a Predator-style distortion in the air, or whatever.

The balance argument has me puzzled. What exactly are you considering to be unbalancing?

-Hyp.

 

[Kaji]

Balance

Well, the more I think about the balance thing, the more I wish I hadn't said it. I was trying to build some sort of interesting and elaborate argument that pretty much ended with me being a genius, but it's all slipped away... Forget the balance comment.