D&D 5E Invisibility and positioning

[Oofta]

As far as how I handle it mechanically, I don't normally put down a mini for invisible monsters and will give the player the location if I determine that a PC may know where the creature is. If there are tracks, I may draw tracks or leave tokens as appropriate. If a PC is invisible, I leave the mini on the board so I know it's there.

Detecting an invisible creature on the other hand is a whole other issue, and one that I still struggle with. On the one hand I don't want invisible characters/creatures to be uber-powered because I try to avoid things that completely break the game. For example, an invisible flying creature in a noisy area should by a strict reading of the rules be virtually impossible to detect without the aid of magic. They leave no tracks and unless they're announcing their presence somehow there is no reason anyone could detect them.

Combine a flying rogue (or anyone with a bonus dash action) with greater invisibility and you have a game-breaking combination. But maybe I just worry too much about things like that because it does require a fair amount of resources.

 

[Plaguescarred]

Thinking more about this Feral Sense problem, in game play as DM, I'd probably just let the PC detect the invisible creature automatically unless it was really hidden (say behind a wall or under a table or in a barrel, etc.).

But if only hidden conceal your position, then you should know the invisible creature's location anyway

I've asked Jeremy about Feral Sense to see if its a mistake.

EDIT Ok you probably meant the creature would be hidden by being concealed by something other than its invisibility as well?

 

[Rhenny]

But if only hidden conceal your position, then you should know the invisible creature's location anyway

I've asked Jeremy about Feral Sense to see if its a mistake.

EDIT Ok you probably meant the creature would be hidden by being concealed by something other than its invisibility as well?

Yeah..that's a good way to put it. Concealed by something other than invisibility.

 

[Oofta]

But if only hidden conceal your position, then you should know the invisible creature's location anyway

I've asked Jeremy about Feral Sense to see if its a mistake.

I think this is a gray area - I agree that technically an invisible flying rogue (IFR) should have to make a hide check. But if you're in a noisy area (raging battle, busy city street, etc) how is the IFR being detected? They're unseen and can only be detected by footprints, noise, accidentally bumping something, etc.

Maybe I'm just putting too much logic in my game, but I like to be consistent with my vision of how the world works and how the rules are written.

At this point, I'm still defaulting back to the "it's like the predator movies" with invisibility still causing some minor visible distortion that may be detected (although it's a higher DC).

To put it another way if an invisible person is standing still on a stone floor, leaving no tracks, in an area that is not so quiet that you hear them breathing do they have to make a hide check? If the invisible creature is actively moving about/attacking I agree with making a stealth check.

 

[Plaguescarred]

Some of my friends think like you and find it illogical

As for Stealth, hiding is active, not passive and so you normally need to take an action to hide. I guess a DM could always rule that a passive stealth check is more appropriate in very specific situations such as when an invisible flying creature is odorless and occupying a magically silenced area so that it can't possibly be perceived by most senses.... but that would be extraordinary measures of course

Bottom line is, RAW you're usually not hidden (and thus positionally concealed) unless you've used an action of some sort to make a stealth check.

 

[Oofta]

Well, invisibility is one of those things I have a disclaimer for when someone new joins. Along with the whole "just because magic works, doesn't mean that real-world-analogies cease to have relevance talk."

Having said that, most of the time hiding while invisible requires a stealth check. But I will frequently make noticing an invisible creature a perception check with a lower DC if it's active*.

A strict reading of RAW suggests that in order to be detected a creature must make perceptible noise, leave tracks or interact with the environment in some way that could be detected and interpreted as "there's someone invisible there." After all "The creature's location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves."

In combat, I would assume that an invisible person is moving about, breathing heavily from exertion/adrenaline and require a stealth check because in most cases they is going to be perceptible elements there.

*As with many areas of D&D I don't follow a "RAW and only RAW" interpretation of the rules. It's not computer code, there are going to be many times when I make a ruling based on an incomplete ruleset. I don't have a problem with that and I find that most players don't either unless they've only been exposed to 4E in the past.