Invisible and Incorporeal

[nameless]

This question is pretty short and simple:

Is it possible to get multiple miss chances on the same character, once from concealment, and a second miss chance from incorporeality?

On one hand, going higher than 50% miss chance is usually impossible, because just swinging randomly has a 50% miss chance. But incorporeal creatures can have a weapon pass right through them even if it's on target. It makes logical sense to me for them to both apply.

 

[ecliptic]

As an incoporeal creature makes no sound, how will the person even know its there?

 

[Caliban]

This question is pretty short and simple:

Is it possible to get multiple miss chances on the same character, once from concealment, and a second miss chance from incorporeality?

On one hand, going higher than 50% miss chance is usually impossible, because just swinging randomly has a 50% miss chance. But incorporeal creatures can have a weapon pass right through them even if it's on target. It makes logical sense to me for them to both apply.

Yes, they would both apply as the miss chances are from two different circumstances.

Same thing would apply if a creature was incorporeal and under the effects of Greater Displacement.

 

[Egres]

As an incoporeal creature makes no sound, how will the person even know its there?

Detect Evil.

 

[ecliptic]

What if its neutral?

 

[Caliban]

What if its neutral?

What if it isn't?

What if you just saw it turn invisible and are attacking it before it can move again?

What if it just attacked you? You usualy know the direction you were attacked from.

What if someone else has see invisibility up and is pointing their square out to you?

Many things can make this scenario possible.

 

[Egres]

What if its neutral?

Detect Undead.

Detect Magic.

 

[andargor]

The Detect spells are nearly useless in a combat situation, since it takes 3 rounds to figure out the location of the creature.

See invisibility is much more effective.

Andargor

 

[Hypersmurf]

The Detect spells are nearly useless in a combat situation, since it takes 3 rounds to figure out the location of the creature.

See invisibility is much more effective.

That's... not really the point.

They're simply hypothesising a situation whereby someone might make an attack against an invisible, incorporeal creature and thereby have to roll a 50% chance twice to damage it.

If you're using See Invisible, one of those chances wouldn't apply, so the example would be... a poor one.

Although you could have someone with See Invisible yelling "He's right there, hit him!" to someone who couldn't, and get the situation we're after.

-Hyp.

 

[nameless]

Hypersmurf has pretty much nailed it.

The fact that you usually know which square you were attacked from (barring reach) means that even an undetectable, incorporeal opponent might have his square targeted. A lucky swordswinger might even pick out of a hat and have a shot.

The situation I'm forseeing is a combination of "he just hit me from right there!" and a special ability that discerns the direction of an opponent without using an action. Really, it's the same situation as attacking any other invisible target, except that target happens to be incorporeal.

Thanks for the agreement.