[Irk rather than Rant]: "Cinematic"
- Thread starter Atavar
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xbrokenxswordx
First Post
Faraer said:
But is cultural resonate and synonomous with cinema. Connotations are nearly as important as definitions.
Faraer said:
What is?
If we're taking "cinematic" to mean some combination of "action-oriented, visually-oriented, hero-centric, favoring the exciting and colorful over the realistic"...
...well, those are not all qualities common to most forms of fiction, and although they are not exclusive to cinema, they are characteristic of certain major forms of cinema --- particularly action movies, from Errol Flynn all the way through the Matrix.
And as previously stated, yes, there are movies that do not have any of the qualities which folks who refer to a "cinematic" RPG are striving for. In the context of RPGs, "cinematic" has taken on a somewhat more specific meaning.
Same with "pulp" --- it's a medium, not a genre, same as "cinema", right? Not when we're talking RPGs. The definitions of both terms in an RPG context are not crystal-clear, but they are solid enough that "pulpy" and "cinematic" are meaningful enough to give some insight as to the tone and feel of the game.
But if you really want to stand around acting confused when someone says "a pulpy game" ["You mean it's like 'True Romance Tales'? That was a pulp, wasn't it?"] or "a cinematic game" ["Oh, like 'The Piano'?"]...knock yourself out.
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Well, if somebody says, "I'm running a game on the 4th -- cinematic action," I don't have to ask what cinematic means. Neither do I have to ask what "action" means, even though it is possible for action to simply mean "doing something", and examples of actions taken include "doing your taxes", "making a sandwich", and "reminiscing about that sunset you saw last week". Heck, genius that I am, I don't even need to ask what he means by "running" -- through the miracle of understanding, I know that he doesn't mean that he's going to force us to jog while playing his game. I also don't need to ask what calendar he's using when he says "the 4th".
C'mon, people. Yes, you're all very intelligent. I can understand the fierce, hawklike joy of taking a term you don't like and declaring that it is meaningless with the old reductio ad absurdum jazz, but really, unless you honestly believe that "I'm running a game on the 4th -- cinematic action" means "We're going to be running alongside the GM's car while re-enacting exciting bits of 'The Color Purple'," then you're just being silly.
That said, I don't like applying it to settings. A system can certainly be cinematic in nature, in terms of what it allows and how it's set up -- any system, for example, that makes the PCs different from ordinary individuals on the street is cinematic to a certain extent, reflecting the PCs' relative importance (for example, the use of NPC classes in D&D, or the use of Ordinaries in d20 Modern, or the fact that mooks don't get Vitality Points in Star Wars). A setting, however, is probably not inherently cinematic relative to another setting that uses the same rules. If Eberron adds new rules to make things more cinematic, then calling it such is fine. The use of Action Points is a step in the cinematic direction -- since, as my players noted, it finally gives them a rule mechanic to use when they really want to get that totally cool action off. If Eberron does other stuff like this, then it can definitely be considered cinematic -- it's changed the rules of the system.
As far as personal tastes go, I like cinematic -- but I also hold that an important element of cinematic action is that the hero is not invincible, even against mooks. D&D, by the core rules, strikes me as grim & gritty at low level, cinematic at mid-level, and comic-bookish at high level. In d20 Modern, on the other hand, a high-level character is still just one mook's critical hit away from a massive damage check. An action-oriented d20 Modern hero can certainly take on a room full of bad guys if he's lucky and well-prepared, but it's not so easy as to be dull.
So mark me down as liking it, but with some caveats about what I do and don't consider cinematic.
C'mon, people. Yes, you're all very intelligent. I can understand the fierce, hawklike joy of taking a term you don't like and declaring that it is meaningless with the old reductio ad absurdum jazz, but really, unless you honestly believe that "I'm running a game on the 4th -- cinematic action" means "We're going to be running alongside the GM's car while re-enacting exciting bits of 'The Color Purple'," then you're just being silly.
That said, I don't like applying it to settings. A system can certainly be cinematic in nature, in terms of what it allows and how it's set up -- any system, for example, that makes the PCs different from ordinary individuals on the street is cinematic to a certain extent, reflecting the PCs' relative importance (for example, the use of NPC classes in D&D, or the use of Ordinaries in d20 Modern, or the fact that mooks don't get Vitality Points in Star Wars). A setting, however, is probably not inherently cinematic relative to another setting that uses the same rules. If Eberron adds new rules to make things more cinematic, then calling it such is fine. The use of Action Points is a step in the cinematic direction -- since, as my players noted, it finally gives them a rule mechanic to use when they really want to get that totally cool action off. If Eberron does other stuff like this, then it can definitely be considered cinematic -- it's changed the rules of the system.
As far as personal tastes go, I like cinematic -- but I also hold that an important element of cinematic action is that the hero is not invincible, even against mooks. D&D, by the core rules, strikes me as grim & gritty at low level, cinematic at mid-level, and comic-bookish at high level. In d20 Modern, on the other hand, a high-level character is still just one mook's critical hit away from a massive damage check. An action-oriented d20 Modern hero can certainly take on a room full of bad guys if he's lucky and well-prepared, but it's not so easy as to be dull.
So mark me down as liking it, but with some caveats about what I do and don't consider cinematic.
barsoomcore
Unattainable Ideal
But wouldn't a game set in Eberron that resembled the Commitments sort of...
ROCK!?
A bunch of unemployed adventures group together to create a kicking rhythm n blues band and NEARLY make it big. Fights with dodgy gear rental employees, Diplomacy checks to keep the back-up singers in the band, Intimidate to stop the fruity jazz wanna-be from screwing things up...
Yeah, baby.
Soulpirates of Rhythm Island, anyone?
ROCK!?
A bunch of unemployed adventures group together to create a kicking rhythm n blues band and NEARLY make it big. Fights with dodgy gear rental employees, Diplomacy checks to keep the back-up singers in the band, Intimidate to stop the fruity jazz wanna-be from screwing things up...
Yeah, baby.
Soulpirates of Rhythm Island, anyone?
barsoomcore said:
WAAA-HOOOO!
Don't get me started, man. I actually spent seven or eight years playing in a working R&B band inspired by the Commitments.
So yeah...I've always wanted to do a band-centered RPG...the struggle, the gigs, the groupies, all the familiar elements, but in a fantasy [or sci fi, or pulp] setting.
"The Hardest Working Band in Sigil."
"Who are yer influences?"
"Uhm...Tom Bombadil..."
[SLAM!]
xbrokenxswordx
First Post
barsoomcore said:
I think I'd pay money to play in that game.
barsoomcore
Unattainable Ideal
I hope its clear that my challenge of the meaning of "cinematic" was entirely tongue-in-cheek.
I say that in the knowledge that it obviously wasn't interpreted that way. My apologies.
Geez, people, you'd think I posted serious comments every once in a while!
I say that in the knowledge that it obviously wasn't interpreted that way. My apologies.
Geez, people, you'd think I posted serious comments every once in a while!
barsoomcore
Unattainable Ideal
JPL said:
Post of the day. Right there. That's how it's done.
Okay, now you got my imagination working WAY too hard...
Anyone else think the "Hijinx" minigame was just this side of brilliant?
barsoomcore said:I hope its clear that my challenge of the meaning of "cinematic" was entirely tongue-in-cheek.
I say that in the knowledge that it obviously wasn't interpreted that way. My apologies.
Geez, people, you'd think I posted serious comments every once in a while!
Nah, I knew YOU got it.
You backed me on "Kung Fu Fighting."
At one point, I actually had this planned out as a modern-day pulp thing crossing Booker T and the MGs with the A-Team.
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