[Irk rather than Rant]: "Cinematic"

[WizarDru]

Shaka, when the walls fell.

Darmok and Jillad at Tenaghra.


Takyris, that color purple thing...that made me laugh out loud. kudos.


Seriously, I've heard 'Cinematic' described as an RPG style since the mid-80s, from GURPS, at the very least. While exactitudes may vary, I'm with takyris on this one. When I tell somone we'll be playing a modern game with a cinematic theme, they know that generally, we're talking about 'The Killer', not 'Serpico'. If I say we're running a cinematic rennaisiance game, they're going to think Alexander Dumas as realized by Hollywood, not Machiavelli. (and yes, I know I'm mixing time periods.).

 

[Desdichado]

C'mon, people. Yes, you're all very intelligent. I can understand the fierce, hawklike joy of taking a term you don't like and declaring that it is meaningless with the old reductio ad absurdum jazz, but really, unless you honestly believe that "I'm running a game on the 4th -- cinematic action" means "We're going to be running alongside the GM's car while re-enacting exciting bits of 'The Color Purple'," then you're just being silly.

Exactly my point. You could do the same for fantasy -- does a fantasy RPG contain magic, elves, dragons, etc. or does it pertain to the wet dream my DM had involving the cheerleading squad?

I don't know why the words cinematic and gritty should be particularly picked on, when what the mean is more or less well established and understandable (as long as you don't get into specific details) to most anyone.

 

[d4]

Exactly my point. You could do the same for fantasy -- does a fantasy RPG contain magic, elves, dragons, etc. or does it pertain to the wet dream my DM had involving the cheerleading squad?

if you've got the BoEF, it could be both!

for what it's worth, for me the tired and overused RPG term that irritates me every time i hear it is "realistic."

i get enough "realism" the other six days of the week; i don't like it invading my RPG table. i'm all for cinematic games, because realistic ones bore me to tears.

 

[MerakSpielman]

*cough*verisimlitude*cough*

 

[takyris]

Thanks, Wiz!

Merak, not sure where you're going with this. I mean, I'm not against the idea of verisimilitude, even in a fantasy game -- I hate it when my players describe their PCs' combat actions in terms that aren't realistic, fighting-wise. I also don't like it when fireballs do nothing but deliver damage, with no wash of heat or ignition of small flammable items or anything like that. Within the contex of the game, I prefer that there be verisimilitude.

But that phrase at the beginning is the important one. Within the context of the game, it makes complete sense that if your wizard can throw bolts of fire and your monk can fall 50 feet without injury, your fighter/rogue can, in the same world, slide across a table, scissor-kick a waiting orc's spear out of its hands, kick the orc in the forehead, catch the spear in midair, and catch the stumbling orc through the heart with it before he falls while rolling off the table and back into the fray.

(Which you can do according to the rules with a charge attack, assisted by a Jump check to handle the table, and if the Jump succeeds by 5 or more, you rule that the move is so fast and surprising that the orc loses his attack of opportunity for the unarmed attack and you give the fighter/rogue guy a +2 bonus to damage, and maybe even allow sneak-attack damage, in addition to his charging bonus to the attack. The disarm-and-spear bit is either flavor-text, or it's handled next round.)

I haven't had universal success with this type of cinematic game, letting skills be used to get bonuses in combat, but some of my players have loved it. Anyone who was willing to give up a full-round attack in order to do some cool flashy movement-followed-by-attack deal had a blast.

 

[~Johnny~]

While I think the term "cinematic" is overdone, it's also descriptive. It means you're going to try to keep things moving, you're going to elide time between "scenes," you're going to come up with ways to keep things visually interesting, you'll use some cinematic cliches like chase scenes, et cetera.

And no, I don't think that RPGs automatically do this. I think a lot of people approach RPGs in a "novelistic" way. Which isn't necessarily bad, but it's different. My favorite RPG experiences have been in the Star Wars RPG, and that's because I have a GM who does an awesome job of focusing on "scenes" instead of plots.

As for action points or Force points or whatever, I don't think they have to be a way of telling players to go all Legolas on someone. When my wookiee Jedi Wrrlichuk was trapped in a sinking city and stuck in a totally uneven match-up against Asajj Ventress, I didn't have him doing any flips or kung-fu moves. I just had him roaring his Wookiee roar and pushing with renewed vigor against her twin lightsabers. That was his Force Point. When I DM and Eberron campaign, Action Points won't be a way to "break the rules," they'll just have a bit more effect (and a cooler description) than a standard action.

I think making a game "cinematic" is as easy as asking yourself how to make each encounter more memorable. There are lots of things that movies do to make people care about what's going on. Make relationships tighter: the little girl the PCs have to save is a character's daughter. Make scenes into set-pieces: give your environments more dynamic qualities. Set time limits: take the dungeon you're about to run and show that it's about to collapse.

It's not the only way to do things, but it can be fun. It's defintely worth a try!

(Silly Cinematic RPG Variant: I once played in a game where the DM "cast" recognizable actors in all the roles. He printed out a bunch of celebrities' pictures from IMDB.com and showed them to us whenever we met someone new. He even did little impersonations of these actors "playing" the NPCs. It was really odd, and not something I'd ever do on an ongoing basis, but it was a tremendous amount of fun.)

 

[dead]

The term Cinematic is gonna sell your book coz motion pictures are such a popular form of entertainment.

For me personally, I don't want my game to be referred to as cinematic. Roleplaying games are a unique entertainment. Sure, they borrow from a lot of narrative styles but the cinema can stay out of my game! I don't want it to become a Hollywood blockbuster; I want it to stay the unique form of storytelling that I've made it.

That's just my game, though. Ebberron designers can pimp there game anyway they like.

 

[d4]

(Silly Cinematic RPG Variant: I once played in a game where the DM "cast" recognizable actors in all the roles. He printed out a bunch of celebrities' pictures from IMDB.com and showed them to us whenever we met someone new. He even did little impersonations of these actors "playing" the NPCs. It was really odd, and not something I'd ever do on an ongoing basis, but it was a tremendous amount of fun.)

i had a GM who did that quite often, and i don't think it was that silly. it actually really helped get a "visual" and a handle on the NPCs by knowing what actor was playing them!

besides, the session where we met the bard played by William S. Burroughs was just a trip.

 

[WizarDru]

*cough*verisimlitude*cough*

\Ver`i*si*mil"i*tude\, n. [L. verisimilitudo: cf.
OF. verisimilitude. See {Verisimilar}.]
The quality or state of being verisimilar; the appearance of
truth; probability; likelihood.
We are talking about D&D here, right? Don't make hong break out the chickens.

Verisimilitude and the nature of cinematics are two different issues, IMHO. To me, verisimilitude is about internal consistency more than pure believability. Seeing Indiana Jones dive under a closing stone door and just make it with only a hair's breadth of space is internally consistent with Indy's style, even if it is very cinematic. Indy suddenly using bullet-time or using martial arts when fighting nazis lacks that same quality.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Does this mean we're going to have to sit, our feet glued to the floor with centuries-old soda-pop, through 45 minutes of ads and previews any time we want to have a game set in Eberron? Just wondering, 's all...

Isn't that how role-playing is supposed to be done?