Irreconcilable differences(Forked Thread: When did I stop being WotC's...)

[thecasualoblivion]

Forked from: When did I stop being WotC's target audience?

Reading through that thread from beginning to end, I find two themes that go beyond simple disagreement. Simple disagreement I would define as "I like D&D and you prefer Vampire, but that's cool," and "I don't like 3E as much as I like 4E, but my friends are playing it and they asked me to join, so I will". Simple disagreements such as those don't generate 10+ pages of replies. That being said, I see two irreconcilable differences when it comes to the edition change:

1. The D&D brand: If things were simply about prefering one system to the other, there wouldn't be an edition war. The issue is that the D&D brand has value, both to individual people and in practice within the gaming community. The fact is that the D&D brand itself is solely supporting 4E right now hurts the 3E gamer and this isn't something that is likely to be fixed.

2. The OGL: There are a lot of people who believe in the OGL, though I am not one of them. WotC has removed the D&D brand in its current and future incarnation from the OGL, and the OGL community is lessened by this. Again, this is something that is unlikely to be fixed.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Forked from: When did I stop being WotC's target audience?

Reading through that thread from beginning to end, I find two themes that go beyond simple disagreement. Simple disagreement I would define as "I like D&D and you prefer Vampire, but that's cool," and "I don't like 3E as much as I like 4E, but my friends are playing it and they asked me to join, so I will". Simple disagreements such as those don't generate 10+ pages of replies. That being said, I see two irreconcilable differences when it comes to the edition change:

1. The D&D brand: If things were simply about prefering one system to the other, there wouldn't be an edition war. The issue is that the D&D brand has value, both to individual people and in practice within the gaming community. The fact is that the D&D brand itself is solely supporting 4E right now hurts the 3E gamer and this isn't something that is likely to be fixed.

2. The OGL: There are a lot of people who believe in the OGL, though I am not one of them. WotC has removed the D&D brand in its current and future incarnation from the OGL, and the OGL community is lessened by this. Again, this is something that is unlikely to be fixed.

I think this is a fair assessment. The D&D Brand and roleplaying separating will be the next big step. Its sad but it was fated to eventually happen when Hasbro got the rights. Roleplaying will not be destroyed by this and people that want to play D&D the roleplaying game (OD&D- 4E) will continue to do so.

 

[The Little Raven]

The D&D Brand and roleplaying separating will be the next big step.

This is a ridiculous and completely unsupported claim, especially for a game that is synonymous with roleplaying games in the mainstream consciousness.

 

[justanobody]

I think this is a fair assessment. The D&D Brand and roleplaying separating will be the next big step. Its sad but it was fated to eventually happen when Hasbro got the rights. Roleplaying will not be destroyed by this and people that want to play D&D the roleplaying game (OD&D- 4E) will continue to do so.

Nope they already did that.

Dungeon Delve

Now you don't need books to play D&D RPG, just grab some minis and go to the combat.

I can't find the actual page that explains the concept, but it is somewhere on the site...

 

[Herremann the Wise]

This is a ridiculous and completely unsupported claim, especially for a game that is synonymous with roleplaying games in the mainstream consciousness.

I wonder - could such a thing be possible? It's only a speculation so don't get your knickers tied too firmly in a knot. You ask a 14-15 year old girl what an rpg is these days and they'll most likely rattle off a couple of xbox/nintendo/playstation games. D&D most likely will not even be on the radar.

I noticed on another thread that the DDM Skirmish game was having it's support withdrawn. Is this right? I don't know terribly much about the skirmish game. How much difference is there between the Skirmish game, and 4e with a combat scenario set up with two different sides? Has the gap closed compared to 3e? Is this the direction D&D is heading in where roleplaying can be just another option?

Again, this is just me pondering. The game is most certainly changing.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Thasmodious]

1. The D&D brand: If things were simply about prefering one system to the other, there wouldn't be an edition war.

Tell that to the Internet when 3rd edition came out.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Tell that to the Internet when 3rd edition came out.

My comments on the D&D brand would apply to the disturbances of the 2E-3E edition change just as much as they apply to right now. You could probably apply it to 1E to 2E as well. Preferring 3E(or 1E or 2E) to 4E or any other edition of D&D really isn't any different than preferring Vampire, Rolemaster, or True20 to a version of D&D. The anger comes from the brand abandoning the old edition in favor of the new.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Tell that to the Internet when 3rd edition came out.

I'm sorry, there has been a very noticeable and very large difference between what happened with 3e coming out and what happened when 4e came out.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

I'm sorry, there has been a very noticeable and very large difference between what happened with 3e coming out and what happened when 4e came out.

Really? People have posted some of the message board outbursts from the dawn of 3E and a lot of it sounds just the same as it does now. The only thing I see now that I didn't see then was people who really liked the OGL and D&D being part of it being upset that 4E has left that behind.

 

[Glyfair]

Really? People have posted some of the message board outbursts from the dawn of 3E and a lot of it sounds just the same as it does now. The only thing I see now that I didn't see then was people who really liked the OGL and D&D being part of it being upset that 4E has left that behind.

I see three major causes behind the differences:

1) The existence of the OGL: You'd think this would mitigate the rancor since 3E D&D is supported (and close versions of earlier editions), but it seems to have increased it.

I will attribute much of this to WotC's mishandling of the GSL*.

2) The proximity in time to 3.5, which many felt was a new edition. Those who feel that way consider it too early for a new edition.


* Regardless of your opinion of the GSL situation, the fact that WotC sat down with 3rd party vendors and assured them of being able to get in on the ground floor, and then failed to follow through was definitely mishandling the situation.