Is 4th edition getting soft? - edited for friendly content :)

[Nifft]

I think there's also a small number of older (30+) gamers like me and the other members of my gaming group who find that work, family and other commitments are starting to eat into gaming time. As a result of this, we are unable to meet more than once or twice a month and thus also prefer shorter campaigns and quicker levelling.

Yup yup yup.

I want faster combats and more of 'em because I want to feel like I'm getting as much "done" as I did back when time constraints were less constraining. My available prep time has gotten quite short (but thankfully my ability to improvise has improved).

Cheers, -- N

 

[Lanefan]

Yup, and that's one of the major reasons I don't play 1e, I play 3e. And I don't play 3e like Windows XP trying to Windows 3.1, I play it using its default assumptions (just as I will play 4e using 4e's assumptions). //.....// its time for Save or Die, (heck saving throw rolls in general) and other artifacts which add little and infuriate many (see: here ) to go as well.

If all saving throws disappeared, how would you run it? Spells always - or never - have full effect? Items never break? You automatically lose your grip on the rope if given a chance? The poison never harms you? How would you do this?

I *suppose* this could work in an extreme deep-immersion storytelling type of game where everyone trusts everyone else (particularly the DM) to let the bad happen with the good, but that'd be a rare thing.

Myself and those I play with tend to play using *our* default assumptions, not the game's; and we make the game fit us rather than force ourselves to fit the game.

Lanefan

 

[Remathilis]

If all saving throws disappeared, how would you run it? Spells always - or never - have full effect? Items never break? You automatically lose your grip on the rope if given a chance? The poison never harms you? How would you do this?
Lanefan

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[DM-Rocco]

DM-Rocco... you sound like a good DM. Here's to keeping save-or-die, at least in some fashion.

(Actually, I wouldn't mind it if they kept save-or-die but also added some sort of action points... since probably the biggest use of action points would be to resist save-or-die effects. In other RPGs I've played which have "fate points" or such things, it seems a lot fairer to throw deadly effects at the characters. Although I'm equally happy with save-or-dies staying more or less as they are, without incorporating action points... the point is, I like that dramatic feeling.)

Thanks, I like to think so, and my players to do, mostly

We have expermented with a few action point varients and the one we like the best is starting at 6th level you gain 1 fate point. Each level after that you gain an additional point but can't have more than 3 at one time. You can use the fate point to add 2d6 to one roll or your choice (to hit, damage, saving throws, etc.) or to avoid death, whether from blade or spell. If you use this last one, you are at -9, stabalized and could still die if the rest of the party is wiped out. It is a good way to give the PCs an edge over bad dice. We don't always use fate points, our current game does not, but for those DMs that want to use normal rules (or for example are new DMs and experimenting with things like SoD effects) and but don't want to ruin character design because of a bad roll, it is great.

 

[Lanefan]

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Unfortunately, reading this would force me to sign up for the DI, which I've so far chosen not to do. Is there a 20-word way to summarize what it says?

Lanefan

 

[allenw]

Unfortunately, reading this would force me to sign up for the DI, which I've so far chosen not to do. Is there a 20-word way to summarize what it says?

Lanefan

If you haven't read ENWorld's 4E summary page (http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e), you really ought to do so. Here's it's summary of the article in question:
===
"The Core Mechanic" deals with the "roll d20 plus modifier to beat a target number" dice roll which is the core of the system. As the article points out, it's still the 3rd Edition core mechanic, but there are a few differences in its application:

Life-or-death saving throws: gone.
Spellcasters get to roll attack rolls and can achieve critical hits.
Touch and flat-footed AC: gone.
AC is one of four standard defences (AC, Reflex, Fortitude, Will), and all four work in the way that AC did in 3rd Edition - in other words, an attacker rolls to beat it: "When a dragon breathes fire on you, it attacks your Reflex and deals half damage if it misses. The DM rolls a d20, adds the dragon’s modifiers, and asks you what your Reflex score is." These attacks can all automatically miss on a 1 or critical on a 20.
===

 

[Lanefan]

Here's it's summary of the article in question:
===
"The Core Mechanic" deals with the "roll d20 plus modifier to beat a target number" dice roll which is the core of the system. As the article points out, it's still the 3rd Edition core mechanic, but there are a few differences in its application:

Life-or-death saving throws: gone.
Spellcasters get to roll attack rolls and can achieve critical hits.
Touch and flat-footed AC: gone.
AC is one of four standard defences (AC, Reflex, Fortitude, Will), and all four work in the way that AC did in 3rd Edition - in other words, an attacker rolls to beat it: "When a dragon breathes fire on you, it attacks your Reflex and deals half damage if it misses. The DM rolls a d20, adds the dragon’s modifiers, and asks you what your Reflex score is." These attacks can all automatically miss on a 1 or critical on a 20.
===

Ah. I'd heard all this as speculation (well, except no touch and flat-foot AC; those are new to me) but I didn't realize they were carved in whatever stonelike substance 4e is carved in so far.

Cuts down on the dice-rolling, but also potentially cuts down on the drama...and drama is fun. I'd have to give this a proper run out in an actual session before deciding if it works for me or not.

Lanefan