D&D 5E Is 5e Heroic, or SUPER-heroic?

[Oofta]

And Batman is not the only superhero. Look at the movies. Look at the comics. Rarely. Vary rarely are they ever taken down. When they are, it's with guys with guns. Guns. Something incredibly more deadly than a sword. (And spare me the police lecture on knives versus guns. Any sane person would rather face a knife wielding bad person than a gun wielding bad person. And if there are multiple bad people, then knives would always be the answer.)
In the movies Batman takes out entire buildings of bad guys with guns. And he does it without even using deadly force. A consideration that supremely limits his "power." Geralt loses to a single monster. Not even a really strong one at that, all because he doesn't use deadly force. Batman fights alongside godlike status partners: Wonderwoman, Superman, Flash, Aqua Man. And he holds his own. In fact, much of the time he leads them. Geralt can barely convince a barkeep to serve him a drink. Then there is equipment: Geralt has a silver sword for monsters. Batman literally made a suit that could enable him to fight Superman.
There is no comparison as to which one of these people is a superhero.

Not to mention that Batman has the ultimate super power. Invulnerable plot armor.

 

[Umbran]

I'm going to wade in with a way of looking at it that hopefully addresses the practical question from the OP.

Unconventional take: whether it is "heroic" or "superheroic" has little if anything to do with the types or level of power in the characters.

There are superheroes that are godlike (Superman, Green Lantern), and others who are not (Daredevil, Hawkeye). There are characters in superhero genres that have no powers at all (like, say, The Punisher). I know, someone will now argue that the Punisher does have powers - put a lid on that for a bit, until you see the actual point.

The powers may be necessary for super hero fiction, but they are not sufficient. The differentiators between heroic fiction and superheroic fiction is what kind of story are you telling?

Superhero fiction is perhaps more clearly stated as "modern mythology". Using sets of shared iconic characters who are larger than life in stories of grand and sweeping scope and impact. There's very little space between the stories of the Justice League or Avengers and stories about the Greek or Norse deities, for example. If you're hoping to tell that kind of story, with D&D, then it is superheroes.

On the other hand, you have fiction like, say, the Deed of Paksennarion, the story of the life of a person, who happens to have powers. The focus is on the real human personal journey. If there is a grand scope, its real fictional purpose is to create an impact on the person of the hero that we can see.

Some characters who are identifiable superheroes are also used to tell heroic stories - Spider Man is such a character. Quite frequently, a Spider Man story is really a Peter Parker story. And then, he's heroic.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Not to mention that Batman has the ultimate super power. Invulnerable plot armor.

Any character in a story can have that, no matter the genre. RPGs (even superhero RPGs) are different.

 

[Flamestrike]

And yet none of that changes my point that you don’t have to play the game that way. It’s cool that you gave the party items to let them fly but let’s not claim it’s necessary.

Im not saying you 'have to' do anything. Im just saying the default DnD powers (as presented) and assumptions (in a literal Adventure Path designed for Dnd) in a default game setting (Greyhawk) is that PCs advance to Avenger level superheroes by mid teen Levels.

You could limit spellcasting to no spells higher than 1st level, and rule out magic, and limit levels to 4th and below and implement gritty healing or whatnot.

But in default DnD, the above is pretty much par for the course.

 

[TheSword]

Im not saying you 'have to' do anything. Im just saying the default DnD powers (as presented) and assumptions (in a literal Adventure Path designed for Dnd) in a default game setting (Greyhawk) is that PCs advance to Avenger level superheroes by mid teen Levels.

You could limit spellcasting to no spells higher than 1st level, and rule out magic, and limit levels to 4th and below and implement gritty healing or whatnot.

But in default DnD, the above is pretty much par for the course.

Wait, no, you gave your Pcs some pretty specific magic items to make them like the Avengers. Though this has nothing to do with power.

You can make Avenger like characters at 5th level, or you can make characters that are distinctly not like the Avengers at level 17. It depends on your style and what you like. There’s no need to limit spells or change healing.

 

[Oofta]

Im not saying you 'have to' do anything. Im just saying the default DnD powers (as presented) and assumptions (in a literal Adventure Path designed for Dnd) in a default game setting (Greyhawk) is that PCs advance to Avenger level superheroes by mid teen Levels.

You could limit spellcasting to no spells higher than 1st level, and rule out magic, and limit levels to 4th and below and implement gritty healing or whatnot.

But in default DnD, the above is pretty much par for the course.

I don't necessarily disagree but it's like comparing apples to bowling balls. Different genres, different goals, different base assumptions.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I suspect medium, writer and studio has a big impact on such things.

So, it's the difference between Disney, and.... Disney

 

[Minigiant]

I think there a big conflation between

Superhero power
and
Superhero stakes

Superman who stick to Metropolis and Superman wh is a founder member of the Justice League are two different levels. Because in D&D 5e, you are not supposed to be a world changer until level 11 or so.

The Batman who fights mob bosses is level 5-10. The one fighting Darkseid is level 17+.

 

[Flamestrike]

Wait, no, you gave your Pcs some pretty specific magic items to make them like the Avengers. Though this has nothing to do with power.

Those were items from the Adventure Path, and are roughly on par with expected levels of magic items found in other adventure paths and high level adventures.

Xanathar's Guide to Everything, includes a section on Awarding Magic Items. It has numbers that represent the number of items of each rarity that the party should receive in each tier (using the tables in the DMG). Ditto the DMG.

I'm just saying this is the default (lIke saying the default realms are Mystara, Dragonlance, Faerun, Greyhawk etc which match this expectation, and Eberron which exceeds it).

You dont have to award magic items (but then you're left with spell casters teleporting to other dimensions, alterint their form and reality, flying and firing bolts of energy from their faces and so forth).

 

[Flamestrike]

You can make Avenger like characters at 5th level, or you can make characters that are distinctly not like the Avengers at level 17. It depends on your style and what you like. There’s no need to limit spells or change healing.

A 17th level Wizard (CRB only) is Doctor Strange or the Scarlet Witch. Probably considerably more powerful than either actually.

As for Defenders level of power? A 3rd level Druid with Wildshape would be a fitting member of the Defenders, able to assume an animal form at will and heal wounds with magic, and summon beasts (let alone the rest of his spell casting).

Again, I'm just saying assuming you're using the Rules (as written), a stock fantasy setting (as written) and the default assumptions of the game.

You could cap HP at 10 for every PC, ban them from advancing past 1st level, and do whatever you want to magic to make it less so. But that's not really the default (as expressed in literally every DnD setting, ever).