D&D 5E Is 5e's Success Actually Bad for Other Games?

[loverdrive]

Careful! This sounds verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry similar to a certain high profile indie RPG analyst/bogeyman WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED!

Is there something I don't know about Edwards?

 

[Campbell]

The impetus behind most indie games including what I would call the original indies (OD&D, RuneQuest, Traveller, et al) was pretty much somebody wanting a play experience they could not get elsewhere. First and foremost the original audience was the designers' play groups. Sometimes you design a game because you feel need for it and offer it up to the public. I mean that's what being indie is all about.

There's nothing wrong with designing with an audience in mind. There's also nothing wrong with not doing that. Art for its own sake.

 

[Dausuul]

I'm unfamiliar with the quote, but I fundamentally disagree.

It seems to be a quote about bushido from "Hagakure: The Book of the Samurai," with "roleplaying" swapped in for "bushido."

I'm just gonna leave that there. It does more to sum up the underlying attitude than anything I could say.

 

[Umbran]

I would also point out that a Board Game renaissance or resurgence was also transpiring happening in the background at this time period, including Wil Wheaton's Tabletop (2012-2017). That undoubtedly had some indirect push and pull on the creative developments in the TTRPG sphere as well.

I think that's a little backwards. Compared to the boardgame market at the time, the TTRPGs were the ones in the background.

 

[loverdrive]

I'm unfamiliar with the quote, but I fundamentally disagree.

It's from Hagakure, I've just replaced Bushidō with roleplaying.

There are entire playstyles focused around mitigating and managing risk, for example.

Are there, though? In order to even start playing, say, an OSR game (which I personally consider a separate hobby, as exactly zero of best practices can be shared with other RPGs, but anyway), you have to betray the very idea of mitigating and managing risks -- because delving into dangerous tombs filled with deadly traps and equally deadly monsters with zero guarantee that it won't even be already looted or just empty in the first place (y'know, negadungeons) is the opposite risk management, it's a thinly-veiled suicide attempt!

 

[darjr]

I think that's a little backwards. Compared to the boardgame market at the time, the TTRPGs were the ones in the background.

Yea. But if they mean board game mechanics influenced 4e design, they are right. Heinso, a board and card game designer as well, said so.

 

[Umbran]

"Roleplaying is realized in the presence of death.

So... those games in which death is difficult or literally not on the table... no roleplaying is "realized"? I think we can toss the aphorism out on that alone.

 

[Aldarc]

I think that's a little backwards. Compared to the boardgame market at the time, the TTRPGs were the ones in the background.

I may not have been clear but this is my point. I think that TTRPGs benefited at this time from there broader interest in board games and the return to tabletop entertainment.

 

[MerricB]

I would also point out that a Board Game renaissance or resurgence was also transpiring happening in the background at this time period, including Wil Wheaton's Tabletop (2012-2017). That undoubtedly had some indirect push and pull on the creative developments in the TTRPG sphere as well.

The period of the rise of boardgames has spanned 2000-2021. (I use 2000 as an arbitrary starting date as it's the founding of BoardGameGeek and the publication of Carcassone - but as you can see from Catan, it started a little bit before that).

It's not something that just happened. It's been growing and growing since about the same time as the release of 3E.

The Settlers of Catan (1995)
Carcassonne (2000)
Ticket to Ride (2004)

Cheers!

 

[loverdrive]

So... those games in which death is difficult or literally not on the table... no roleplaying is "realized"? I think we can toss the aphorism out on that alone.

Well, "death" can mean "trouble" in this context, and pretty much nothing would change