Is a fighter-ranger hybrid dumb? (help me build)

[Aulirophile]

Not if the two class features stack!

I was going to go into character builder to see how it handles it, but then I remembered that character builder does not actually handle the off-hand trait correctly to start, never has, and probably never will. So whatever it does is more likely wrong than right, don't do that.

Stupid Character Builder.

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You cannot do it with the Ranger version. The reason is that it only allows the use in your off-hand as if it had the off-hand property. That means that, for the purposes of using it in the off-hand, it does have the property, but for other purposes (such as Tempest Technique) it does not.

However, the Barbarian's Whirling Slayer DOES work, because it 'treats it as an off-hand weapon' and is non-specific.

So in the case of the Barbarian, a Fighter could get their +1 to hit and +2 damage with the bastard sword they're holding in their off hand.

Uh-huh.

Kensei. I have to use a 1d6 instead of a 1d10 but I get +4 to damage and additional +1 to hit. Since 1 hit is > 1 average damage, I'm beating the 1d10 by more then 3 average damage. So for single-target, I'll be generous, it ties at 3[w] single-target attacks. You give up Whirling Lunge in exchange for the ability to spend an AP to reroll, and you get some awesome powers. Oh, and I save a feat, I'm proficienct in Short Swords by default.

Paragon Hybrid is a waste, because for the most part it can be done better by fiddling around with a build and taking the right PP. I've been trying since the PHB3 came out to find a combo that is superior to simply taking a normal PP, and I haven't managed it. I haven't seen a build on CharOp that uses it either, the couple threads that've had one people immediately redid the builds with a real PP and it ended up better in every case.

 

[DracoSuave]

Uh-huh.

Kensei. I have to use a 1d6 instead of a 1d10 but I get +4 to damage and additional +1 to hit. Since 1 hit is > 1 average damage, I'm beating the 1d10 by more then 3 average damage. So for single-target, I'll be generous, it ties at 3[w] single-target attacks. You give up Whirling Lunge in exchange for the ability to spend an AP to reroll, and you get some awesome powers. Oh, and I save a feat, I'm proficienct in Short Swords by default.

Paragon Hybrid is a waste, because for the most part it can be done better by fiddling around with a build and taking the right PP. I've been trying since the PHB3 came out to find a combo that is superior to simply taking a normal PP, and I haven't managed it. I haven't seen a build on CharOp that uses it either, the couple threads that've had one people immediately redid the builds with a real PP and it ended up better in every case.

Brawler/Monk says +6 proficiency bonus with 1d10 weapons is delicious, and not something PPs can do.

 

[Aulirophile]

Brawler/Monk says +6 proficiency bonus with 1d10 weapons is delicious, and not something PPs can do.

Brawler gives you an Enhancement bonus. Which makes it equivalent to using a magic item, something you of course normally can't do with an unarmed attack, but it would, for instance, not stack with a Magical Spiked Gauntlet (which gives an identical bonus to Brawler style for attack/damage). Doesn't stack with Ki Foci, either, since both are Enhancement bonuses. So you skipped taking a PP to get a +1 bonus to AC and a +2 to bonus to Fort when your hand is empty or you're grabbing someone. Either way, it isn't a +6 proficiency anything. It is a +3 prof with scaling identical to having a magic item. You saved some gold, I guess?

Not sure where you got the 1d10 from, Unarmed Combatant is 1d8.

 

[DracoSuave]

Brawler gives you an Enhancement bonus. Which makes it equivalent to using a magic item,

But I... uh...


DAMN YOU UPDDAAAAATTTTOOOORRRRR!

Not sure where you got the 1d10 from, Unarmed Combatant is 1d8.

The feat that gives you that, of course.

 

[Herschel]

If you want swords and bows, you might actually look in the Warlord class. There's a ranged warlord option, that way you can get both melee/ranged to key off STR, making it less difficult to be good at both.

This was my thought as well. Aragorn's a leader-type as well as being good in combat.

 

[Klaus]

I agree that Aragorn is a leader-type, but I think he fits Bard better than Warlord:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Aragorn, level 10
Half-Elf, Bard
Bardic Virtue: Virtue of Valor
Student of the Sword: Student of One-Handed Weapons

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 16, Dex 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 20.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 13, Dex 13, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 16.


AC: 21 Fort: 18 Reflex: 18 Will: 21
HP: 73 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 18

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +12, Athletics +13, Heal +11, Nature +13, Perception +11, Diplomacy +17, Endurance +13, Stealth +15

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +9, Bluff +11, Dungeoneering +9, History +8, Insight +9, Intimidate +11, Religion +8, Streetwise +13, Thievery +8

FEATS
Bard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Bardic Knowledge
Level 2: Inspiring Leader
Level 4: Student of the Sword
Level 6: Warrior of the Wild
Level 8: Light Step
Level 10: Group Insight

POWERS
Bard at-will 1: War Song Strike
Bard at-will 1: Jinx Shot (ranged)
Dilettante: Ardent Strike
Bard encounter 1: Prophesied Strike (ranged)
Bard daily 1: Slayer's Song
Bard utility 2: Healer's Gift
Bard encounter 3: Charger's Call
Bard daily 5: Arrow of Ill Omen (ranged)
Bard utility 6: Mighty Sprint
Bard encounter 7: Scorpion's Claw Strike
Bard daily 9: Saga of Vengeance (ranged)
Bard utility 10: Spot the Path

ITEMS
Ritual Book, Sylvan Leather Armor +2, Righteous Longsword +2, Distance Shortbow +2, Grace Ring of Salvation (paragon tier), Quicksilver Blade Dagger +3
RITUALS
Banish Vermin, Create Campsite, Gentle Repose, Traveler's Chant, Delay Affliction, Snare, Preserve Flame, Song of Sustenance, Trailblaze
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

 

[Samir]

Aragorn would make a good Warlord, as long as you yell "bring him down, Legolas!" every time you use Direct the Strike.

 

[Klaus]

Aragorn would make a good Warlord, as long as you yell "bring him down, Legolas!" every time you use Direct the Strike.

Aragorn (or any of the members of the Fellowship, beyond possibly Gimli and Boromir) never struck me as being immensely strong. OTOH, Aragorn sang a whole lot and Middle-Earth has a big "heroes are blessed by grace" vibe going.

 

[Samir]

Aragorn (or any of the members of the Fellowship, beyond possibly Gimli and Boromir) never struck me as being immensely strong. OTOH, Aragorn sang a whole lot and Middle-Earth has a big "heroes are blessed by grace" vibe going.

Aragorn could be templated as a lot of things, but the 4e Bard--with its distinctly Arcane fluff--is a rather unusual candidate.

He doesn't practice or fight with magic, which is at odds with the Bard's prolific use of spells and magic-assisted melee. Aragorn's combat skills are primarily martial: he's a warrior and a commander, both of which are pretty on-the-mark for Warlord.

 

[Klaus]

Aragorn could be templated as a lot of things, but the 4e Bard--with its distinctly Arcane fluff--is a rather unusual candidate.

He doesn't practice or fight with magic, which is at odds with the Bard's prolific use of spells and magic-assisted melee. Aragorn's combat skills are primarily martial: he's a warrior and a commander, both of which are pretty on-the-mark for Warlord.

1. Everything in Middle-Earth was magical simply through the essential magic of the setting.

2. Just because the bard is an Arcane class doesn't mean that a bard character is casting spells. Just change the fluff.

3. The powers I chose are all "weapon" powers with no truly magical effects. Jinx Shot unbalances an opponent, War Song Strike grants temp hp to the next ally that hits the target, etc. Chalk it up to inspiration.

4. The rituals I chose mimic perfectly the abilities of Aragorn as a ranger of the North.

5. The dude is crowned king and what is the first thing he does? He breaks into song!