Is a grapple check an attack roll?

Glyfair

Explorer
For Worldwide D&D Gameday I ran the dungeon delve scenario. The dragon bite and snatched one of the characters attempted to break out of the grapple, and I pointed out it was impossible (PC grapple check +30, Dragon +72). He said he automatically succeeded on a 20 since it was an "attack roll." I didn't belabor the point, especially since he didn't roll a 20.

Did he have a leg to stand on with his argument?
 

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Glyfair said:
For Worldwide D&D Gameday I ran the dungeon delve scenario. The dragon bite and snatched one of the characters attempted to break out of the grapple, and I pointed out it was impossible (PC grapple check +30, Dragon +72). He said he automatically succeeded on a 20 since it was an "attack roll." I didn't belabor the point, especially since he didn't roll a 20.

Did he have a leg to stand on with his argument?

Nope.
 

Glyfair said:
Did he have a leg to stand on with his argument?
No. It is not an attack roll and is not automatic success. It is like an attack roll and tells you how.

Also, you can't have automatic success failure in an opposed check. It creates a paradox wherein the game crashes to desktop whenever both roll a 20 or a 1.
 

But remember to have the dragon checking at -20 if he's just using his mouth to grapple.

Still impossible for the PC to win, but much closer.
 

Glyfair said:
For Worldwide D&D Gameday I ran the dungeon delve scenario. The dragon bite and snatched one of the characters attempted to break out of the grapple, and I pointed out it was impossible (PC grapple check +30, Dragon +72). He said he automatically succeeded on a 20 since it was an "attack roll." I didn't belabor the point, especially since he didn't roll a 20.

Did he have a leg to stand on with his argument?

Nope, it's not an attack roll. The initial touch attack to initiate a grapple is an attack roll. That'll automatically succeed on a natural 20. The grapple check is something else entirely, however.

Just look on the bright side - also means you don't automatically fail on a natural 1. :p
 


Yep, the dragons' grapple check looks huge until you remember that if he doesn't take the -20 he's suddenly vulnerable to sneak attack, can't attack other players, can't charge or run or do any of those things. In general, if a dragon grapples at all (which they don't like to) it should be at a -20.
 

Infiniti2000 said:
Also, you can't have automatic success failure in an opposed check. It creates a paradox wherein the game crashes to desktop whenever both roll a 20 or a 1.
Really funny. If both sided rolled the same then compare the bonuses.
 

frankthedm said:
Really funny. If both sided rolled the same then compare the bonuses.
The bonuses are completely irrelevant when a natural 20 is automatic success (or always a hit) and a natural 1 is automatic failure (or always a miss). The word 'always' has meaning, you know. :)
 

Infiniti2000 said:
The bonuses are completely irrelevant when a natural 20 is automatic success (or always a hit) and a natural 1 is automatic failure (or always a miss). The word 'always' has meaning, you know. :)

Right. There is no such thing as automatic success" or "automatic failure" for an opposed roll. Well, at least not in the sense of a natural "20" or natural "1."
 

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