Is a grapple check an attack roll?

[RigaMortus2]

So if someone were to Power Attack before they made a grapple (for whatever reason), the initial touch attack would get the minus from Power Attack but the opposed grapple check would not, right?

 

[Squire James]

All this is the reason I use a Rolemaster-esque "open ended roll" system for natural 1's and 20's on d20 checks. On a natural 1, roll again and subtract 20. On a natural 20, roll again and add 20. If that followup is a natural 1 or 20, apply the -20 or +20 modifier again and reroll (it is possible in my system to "cancel out" a 1 with a 20).

(Edit: You never know you use so many House Rules you use until you go to a Pedantic Rules thread and post a House Rule in nearly every topic...)

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

So if someone were to Power Attack before they made a grapple (for whatever reason), the initial touch attack would get the minus from Power Attack but the opposed grapple check would not, right?

Correct.

 

[Sejs]

In general, if a dragon grapples at all (which they don't like to) it should be at a -20.

Wait, they don't like to grapple now? Come again?

Grappling is an instrinsic part of the Draconic "I Win" Scenario: grapple one schmo, fly off with him, kill him, fly back, grapple and fly off with the next guy, repeat as necessary.

 

[Legildur]

So if someone were to Power Attack before they made a grapple (for whatever reason), the initial touch attack would get the minus from Power Attack but the opposed grapple check would not, right?

I see Patryn answered this question, but it then begs the further question, does the bonus damage from Power Attack apply to the grapple damage? I would say yes, but I'd like to know for sure. That means, that once grappling, you could take the maximum penalty on your Power Attack and do some obscene damage!

 

[Infiniti2000]

I see Patryn answered this question, but it then begs the further question, does the bonus damage from Power Attack apply to the grapple damage? I would say yes, but I'd like to know for sure. That means, that once grappling, you could take the maximum penalty on your Power Attack and do some obscene damage!

If you answer no to applying the power attack penalty to the opposed grapple check, then you necessarily must answer no to the damage. Power Attack uses the same wording, "melee attack roll" and "melee damage roll." It cannot be a melee damage roll unless it was not a melee attack roll, can it?

Regardless, house rule or not, I'd wager that a majority (75% at least) allow you to apply PA for damage (and CE I suppose, but less effective) while grappling, but the penalty applies to the opposed grapple check.

 

[frankthedm]

Wait, they don't like to grapple now? Come again?

Grappling is an instrinsic part of the Draconic "I Win" Scenario: grapple one schmo, fly off with him, kill him, fly back, grapple and fly off with the next guy, repeat as necessary.

The dragon has to be really big to do that. It works on foes small enough to use the Snatch feat on. Of course when dealing with dragons of gargantuan or larger PCs tend to be in the high levels where freedom of movement is a popular buff. Oh snap! Here I thought a dragon had to be three or more sizes larger than the target to even use the Snatch feat. It looks like they could improved grab someone just 1 size smaller. Being 3 sizes over the snatched for just means extra damage from the snatching. Since snatch works off improved grab...It can even move (possibly carrying away the opponent), provided it can drag the opponent’s weight.


Snatch [General]
Prerequisite
Size Huge or larger.

Benefits
The creature can choose to start a grapple when it hits with a claw or bite attack, as though it had the improved grab special attack. If the creature gets a hold on a creature three or more sizes smaller, it squeezes each round for automatic bite or claw damage. A snatched opponent held in the creature’s mouth is not allowed a Reflex save against the creature’s breath weapon, if it has one.

The creature can drop a creature it has snatched as a free action or use a standard action to fling it aside. A flung creature travels 1d6 × 10 feet, and takes 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet traveled. If the creature flings a snatched opponent while flying, the opponent takes this amount or falling damage, whichever is greater.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Since snatch works off improved grab...

Not necessarily. "as though it had the improved grab special attack" is vague. I see that as meaning that the ability does not provoke an AoO. This is even further evidenced by the wording in Improved Grab about "Unless otherwise noted..." Well, the fact is that Snatch is otherwise noted.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

If you answer no to applying the power attack penalty to the opposed grapple check, then you necessarily must answer no to the damage. Power Attack uses the same wording, "melee attack roll" and "melee damage roll." It cannot be a melee damage roll unless it was not a melee attack roll, can it?

I knew I should have added that in before, as well. I thought about it, and then said, "nah."

Regardless, house rule or not, I'd wager that a majority (75% at least) allow you to apply PA for damage (and CE I suppose, but less effective) while grappling, but the penalty applies to the opposed grapple check.

Also no doubt true.

 

[Glyfair]

No. It is not an attack roll and is not automatic success. It is like an attack roll and tells you how.

Also, you can't have automatic success failure in an opposed check. It creates a paradox wherein the game crashes to desktop whenever both roll a 20 or a 1.

Part of my reasoning, actually (it was a very long day, and I was very tired at this point). I don't even know why I questioned that I was wrong in this instance.