Is a touch spell discharged if you strike a mirror image?

[Bonedagger]

I don't see so much of a problem with it really. When a sorc. or wiz. still relies on a Shocking Grasp in combat he is probable still low level. That means he doesn't have that many spells memorized to begin with and he's probably not an expert at hitting targets in a physical fight. Missing a hit means more chance that he will lose some of his few hitpoints because of the incresed time exposed to danger.... I think it's balanced.

 

[Artoomis]

I don't see so much of a problem with it really. When a sorc. or wiz. still relies on a Shocking Grasp in combat he is probable still low level. That means he doesn't have that many spells memorized to begin with and he's probably not an expert at hitting targets in a physical fight. Missing a hit means more chance that he will lose some of his few hitpoints because of the incresed time exposed to danger.... I think it's balanced.

Ah, but where it really count is, say, a high level cleric attempting to hit the mirror imaged mage with Harm.

NOW it's a big deal to figure out how it works.

I think it's prefectly fine and in accordance with the rules and the intenet of the rules for illusions and such to say that the touch spell is released (the charge is no longer held) when you "hit" a mirror image.


Since you "can" hold a charge, one presumes that you can also choose to not hold a charge, and I further infer that when you hit something intentionally you are intentionally releasing the charge into whatever you hit. If what you hit is a figment, than you released the charge anyway - but to no effect since there was actually nothing to hit.

If you run it this way, it will have consistency with higher level illusions that have tactile components - you didn't really/i] hit anything, but you believe you did. To maintain that belief, you release the charge - of course nothing really happens except the charge is gone, but you think something does because of the illusion.

So, in summary, you can choose to stop holding a charge, but whether you do so when you "hit" an illusion is a good question. A good argument can be presented either way.

Neither side of teh argument would affect how you rule on incorporeal creatures - you simply don't hit them, nor do you think you have hit them.

 

[Bonedagger]

Right - you can hold the charge. Not must.

This is not out of context. In fact, it would be BAD if you could not simply choose to not hold a charge. What if you picked the wrong spell - then what do you do with the active charge in your hand? The simple, obvious solution is that you simply choose to not excerise the abaility to hold the charge. This BOTH makes a great deal of sense AND follows the letter of the rules - what more do you want?

"I think if he thinks he touched something (as in an illusion), the spell should be discharged. No save, or any such thing, unless the illusion itself grants one. Mirror Image fools you - no save, end of story. You think you hit something, so you stop holding the charge. "

"The character can hold the charge - not does, or must. Clearly, the character has mental control over holding the charge..."

Where do you get the idea that you have some kind of mentally control over wether you want to discarge the spell or not?

"What if you picked the wrong spell - then what do you do with the active charge in your hand?"

Cast a new one?

Now. what you think makes a lot of sense (You are aware we are talking about D&D magic....) is not the point. The way you can dicharge the spell according to the rules are. And you DON'T follow the letter of the rule there. But I don't WANT you to. That is your choise.

.....

 

[Henrix]

Ah, but where it really count is, say, a high level cleric attempting to hit the mirror imaged mage with Harm.

NOW it's a big deal to figure out how it works.

That's a problem with Harm, not with touch spells!

Since you "can" hold a charge, one presumes that you can also choose to not hold a charge, and I further infer that when you hit something intentionally you are intentionally releasing the charge into whatever you hit.

I still say there's no evidence in the rules that there's any act of volition involved.

You touch something - charge goes off.

You don't touch anything - charge stays. (As long as you cast no other spell.)

IMHO, Mirror Image is just a fancy miss chance. One that can go high (with eight images you have ~89% miss chance, which is good).

But I can buy the argument that it may be enough of something to discharge a touch spell. It's not how I'd rule, but that's cool.

 

[Bonedagger]

If you run it this way, it will have consistency with higher level illusions that have tactile components - you didn't really/i] hit anything, but you believe you did. To maintain that belief, you release the charge - of course nothing really happens except the charge is gone, but you think something does because of the illusion.

But isn't that where Shadow illusions come into play?

 

[kreynolds]

I know that if you "hold the charge" on a touch spell and grab your sword, you zap your sword (spell goes off). However, if you "hold the charge" and start _touching_ yourself, does the spell go off?

 

[Bonedagger]

I know that if you "hold the charge" on a touch spell and grab your sword, you zap your sword (spell goes off). However, if you "hold the charge" and start _touching_ yourself, does the spell go off?

Exactly what "spell" are you talking about?

..But I would say yes

Added: I did go ROMAFL though

 

[kreynolds]

ROMAFL

What does that mean? Rolling On My A$$ Floor Laughing?

 

[Voadam]

From the srd:

Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: If the character doesn't discharge a touch spell on the round the character casts the spell, the character can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely.

The character can make touch attacks round after round. The character can touch one friend (or the character can touch his or her self) as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. If the character touches anything with the character's hand while holding a charge, the spell discharges. If the character casts another spell, the touch spell dissipates.

Discharge: A few spells last for a set duration or until triggered or discharged.

(D): If the Duration line ends with "(D)," the character can dismiss the spell at will. The character must be within range of the spell's effect and must speak words of dismissal, which are usually a modified form of the spell's verbal component. If the spell has no verbal component, the character dismisses the spell with a gesture.
Dismissing a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. A spell that depends on concentration is dismissible by its very nature, and dismissing it does not require an action (since all the character has to do to end the spell is to stop concentrating).

I read this as touch spells last until discharged and are only dismissible at will if they have a (D) in their duration line. Touching anything and casting another spell also discharge the spell as specifically stated above.

 

[Bonedagger]

What does that mean? Rolling On My A$$ Floor Laughing?

I think it's: Right of my ass from laughing.

But that's just an assumption