Is anyone else ticked off at "core" splash books?

[Lord Morte]

Has anyone else played with one of these "gestalt" prestige classes? Are they trully as broken as I'm thinking, or am I missing something?

A fellow player has one, specifically a mystic theurge and his seems pretty powerful... up to the point where he has to deal with SR or trys to turn undead, at which point he flops. In comparison to my straight-class druid, his spell-casting is more versitile and has more endurance (he can caster more spells) but mine is more powerful.

Practised Spellcaster could tip that balance towards him, but he's got to burn a feat to get that and, as Silveras has pointed out, the gesalt classes don't get as many feats as straight-class wizards or psions. We'll probably gain a new feat at the same time, so while he gets Practised Spellcaster, I could improve my already strong magic with a metamagic feat or Spell Focus. Plus that he'll have only improved ONE sort of spell casting, leaving the other and his turning still stunted, and I'm still going to have higher level spells that him.

I don't recall a Practised Manifester feat either, so a cerebramancer doesn't have the same out.

 

[Thanee]

My main beef is that the character apparently gives up absolutely NOTHING for the benefits of the prestige class.

Uhm, yeah right. Losing 3 levels is like NOTHING in D&D.

Any wizard who's got the prerequisite 3 levels in cleric or psion or whatever would be INSANE not to take a level of a prestige class over a level in wizard.

This is correct. And any wizard who picks up 3 levels in cleric WITHOUT picking up this PrC would be even more INSANE (and totally and utterly weak as well).

Has anyone else played with one of these "gestalt" prestige classes?

The Mystic Theurge is in no way close to Gestalt.

Are they trully as broken as I'm thinking, or am I missing something?

Missing the mark by miles, I'd say. And yes we've played with the Mystic Theurge.

Losing two levels of casting ability (spell levels and spells per day mostly) is roughly the same as HALVING the power of a spellcaster! Maybe not exactly that much, but with 3 levels lost, it's definitely at that point, so adding another such half just makes a complete character.

However, I'd agree, that comparing with my experience with the Mystic Theurge, the Cerebromancer seems somewhat broken (not sure, if it's really *broken*, but certainly stronger than the Mystic Theurge), as it gives quite some additional benefits with no additional cost.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

And despite the view of your group the splat books aren't 'core' - WotC does not even try to claim so.

That's not what he said... they are not core, but the are seen as 'core' in his group (all material used with no questions asked, so to say). That's how I understood that, at least.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

And besides... the Mystic Theurge IS core.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Shadowdweller]

However, I'd agree, that comparing with my experience with the Mystic Theurge, the Cerebromancer seems somewhat broken (not sure, if it's really *broken*, but certainly stronger than the Mystic Theurge), as it gives quite some additional benefits with no additional cost.

I concur here. Many of the lower level psionic powers seem equally as good, if not better, than higher level ones with their enhancements.

 

[Staffan]

I concur here. Many of the lower level psionic powers seem equally as good, if not better, than higher level ones with their enhancements.

But your manifester level is still 3 lower than a single-classed psion, so you can't augment your powers as much as one could.

 

[apesamongus]

I concur here. Many of the lower level psionic powers seem equally as good, if not better, than higher level ones with their enhancements.

You can also be wiz/psion/cere and have both classes based off of a single ability score, which is much harder to do with the Theurge (sure, you can pick sorceror/one of the charisma divine casters, but sorcerors are kind of stinky when it comes to the mystic theurge)

 

[Thanee]

Yeah, I think the main "problem" with the Cerebromancer compared with the Mystic Theurge is, that you have two drastically different casting methods there.

Psions can put out a lot of power in a short time and while a Cereb-Psion is weaker on that behalf than a pure Psion, that power does not go away completely.

A Wizard OTOH has a lot of spell endurance, which the Psion normally lacks (somewhat). Combining these two gives more than combining two "Wizard-like" casters, as you gain something completely new not another set of the same thing, basically.

In addition you then have a bunch of powers you can manifest spontaneously and the whole knowledge base of a Wizard to be ready for all the situations where spontanity is not required. And you do not even lose another level for it, as you would if you tried the same with the Mystic Theurge.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Galbard]

You could always go favored soul/sorcerer to lessen the MAD

And get even further behind in power. At 9th level the FS/sorc get his first level of MT. At that point he can cast second level spells. A straight wizard or cleric casts fifth level spells at that point. Heck, even a ranger or pally casts second level spells.

 

[Doctor Shaft]

Don't worry about it too much. Just let him play around, and as you figure out what his strategy is, you can adapt your encounters accordingly.

Just avoid sending hordes of low will/low reflex save enemies that easily succumb to psionic suggestions and the like, and he shouldn't prove too powerful at all. He'll be extremely versatile, and you might be annoyed when you find that in non-combative situations, he's got tons and tons of tricks up his sleeve... but that's not something that would utterly ruin your campaign, I don't think.

He's not specialized in anything, it's like a jack-of-all-trades. Very useful as a team player... just try to get him seperated from the team occasionally and you can even the tables.

Or just send a monk after him.