Is Chaotic evil more evil than Lawful evil?

Atom Again · Sep 20, 2004

Before someone replies by saying, "No, just more chaotic", let me make it clear what I'm asking. Is a chaotic evil person a "worse" person than a lawful evil person? I mean, a lawful evil person at least has some code of conduct, some sense of loyalty, some concept of allegiance and order.

A chaotic evil person, on the other hand, is loyal to nothing or no one, only him (or her) self.

Think of it this way. Tony Soprano = Lawful Evil. Ted Bundy = Chaotic Evil. They're both killers, but we all know who's worse...

Mouseferatu · Sep 20, 2004

Atom Again said:
Think of it this way. Tony Soprano = Lawful Evil. Ted Bundy = Chaotic Evil. They're both killers, but we all know who's worse...

On the other hand:

Ted Bundy = Chaotic Evil. Adolf Hitler = Lawful Evil.

It's all a matter of degree. No "type" of evil is inherently more evil than any other type of evil in D&D.

Voadam · Sep 20, 2004

Nope.

Absolute devotion to the cause of evil is LE.

Randomly evil is CE.

So it is possible to view it as LE able to do more evil and does more evil because it is focused and organized while CE simply does it as opportunity presents itself or for fun on whims which change.

Is group oriented evil better than individually oriented evil?

Is it less damaging to be evil and serve an evil cause than to be evil and only inflict evil on a personal scale?

CRGreathouse · Sep 20, 2004

I'll echo Ari: LE is no 'better' than CE. Both are evil, they just have different methods.

I don't think that LE implies a devotion to evil any more than CE; one could be a devout worshipper of a god of destruction (devoted CE), a psychopath (incedental CE), a tyrant (incedental LE), or a strong believer in a great evil empire (devoted LE), to give but 4 archetypical examples.

spider_minion · Sep 20, 2004

That really depends on how you define evil (a surprisingly difficult question to answer). Character? Actions? Body count?

My take on it is that you have to look at the evil individual, rather than the alignment in question.

Hand of Evil · Sep 20, 2004

Evil is evil is evil - it just the press you get for it and the spin placed on it.

~Johnny~ · Sep 20, 2004

Ted Bundy = Chaotic Evil. Adolf Hitler = Lawful Evil.

Whoa. I was about to make that exact same comparison.

Freaky.

And technically speaking (though this isn't how I played it during my first dozen years of D&D), Neutral Evil is just as evil as Lawful or Chaotic. It's just evil without a leaning toward order or madness.

Lord Pendragon · Sep 20, 2004

Voadam said:
Absolute devotion to the cause of evil is LE.

Actually, I was always under the impression that NE was absolute devotion to the cause of evil. Neutral Evil completely negates the Law/Chaos axis, creating a character that is based solely on the Good/Evil axis, and of course entirely evil. Whereas a Lawful/Chaotic Evil character would have a second focal principle on the Law/Chaos axis, diluting the character's focus on evil above all else.

I view Good the same way. Neutral Good being the "goodest" of the three. With Lawful/Chaotic Good being also swayed by the second axis.

Imagine a cross, with Neutrality at the center, and each point representing an alignment factor. The x-axis represents Evil <------> Good, and the y-axis represents Lawful <--------> Chaotic. A force pushes outward from the center toward each terminal axis point. Any given character is affected by those forces which match his alignment (pushing him towards that point on the cross.)

So the Neutral Good character, only affected by the force of Good, winds up directly on the terminal Good point. Whereas a Lawful Good character winds up in the upper right corner. Still as far to the right (Good) as he can be, but seperated from pure Good by the entire length of Lawfulness.

Dark Psion · Sep 20, 2004

Chaotic Evil "looks" more evil because it is evil unleashed.

As they say, "The Devil can assume a plesant form", Lawful Evil doesn't always look evil. Al Capone was considered a very nice guy by people in his neighborhood.

I would agree that Neutral Evil is the worst, because where Lawful Evil maybe doing things "for you own good" and Chaotic Evil may simply be insane. Neutral Evil KNOWS it is evil and likes it that way.