Is character class an in-world concept in your campaigns?

Arnwolf666

Adventurer
Because I am a lazy DM. Oh I'm so lazy.

I buy book, I run adventure from book. In the middle I try to adjudicate as fair as possible and make sure every player is getting equal spotlight, and that everyone is having fun.


Oh powerful adversaries that's fun.

But no one likes it when the DMPC Deva with the magic sword and staff and secret magic ring solos the Balor between sessions and comes back with fancy new white robes a new mount that's better than anything your player can get.
Exactly. You use them as someone to outwit.
 
Actually the high tech status of the middle east relative to european and some asian nations in the ancient world is exaggerated.

The norse were more advanced than the typical middle eastern country.

Less innovation spent on hedonism and luxury tends to bloat the land with obvious examples of tech less.
 
Likewise, I'm not that offended by attempts in 3e and later to simplify statblocks for NPCs, provided those simplified stat blocks don't leave the players wishing that they could be as cool as an NPC.
Absolutely this. High-level NPCs look a lot like what I think high-level PCs should look like, but the standard rules for ability score generation and ability score improvements don't make that possible-- and I think that's ridiculous.
 
Absolutely this. High-level NPCs look a lot like what I think high-level PCs should look like, but the standard rules for ability score generation and ability score improvements don't make that possible-- and I think that's ridiculous.
Hmmm

If you would be so kind aa to elaborate on this as pertains to 3.x 4 and 5 (hiw it presents in them) id be grateful. It interests me
 
Hmmm

If you would be so kind aa to elaborate on this as pertains to 3.x 4 and 5 (hiw it presents in them) id be grateful. It interests me
I don't own any of the campaign setting stuff for 4e or 5e, but let's crack open the 3.X Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.

Artemis Entreri is 18th level. STR 14 DEX 20 CON 15 INT 16 WIS 16 CHA 13.

Assume he's had the benefits of ASIs at 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th level as standard for 3.X, assume best case scenario all four went to DEX, that's starting scores of STR 14 DEX 16 CON 15 INT 16 WIS 16 CHA 13.

That's 49 point buy, just under 200% the recommended 25 points for PCs or just over 150% of the highest suggested value of 32. That means that even if standard characters claw and bite their way to 18th level, they're going to be strictly inferior to the characters in the tie-in fiction, even though they're supposed to be the stars.

Drizzt is STR 13 DEX 20 CON 15 INT 17 WIS 17 CHA 14. First account for Drow mods, that's STR 13 DEX 18 CON 15 INT 15 WIS 17 CHA 12. ASIs, we're going to say that +2 DEX and +2 WIS.

STR 13 DEX 16 CON 15 WIS 15 CHA 12

Surprisingly, that is only 35 points, a mere 3 points above the most "high powered" variant, though he's sitting on a +2 Level Adjustment for his race.

It's galling when fiction based on game routinely features characters you can't actually play in the game.
 
I'd also point out that just because that bard is being mistaken for a cleric doesn't actually mean that classes are not an in-world thing. After all, he's being mistaken for a CLERIC.
If I was a highly charismatic, magic-wielding, entertainer, and I was mistaken for a pencil pusher doing clerical work, I'd be a bit put out...
...unless it was my day job, of course.
 

Arnwolf666

Adventurer
I don't own any of the campaign setting stuff for 4e or 5e, but let's crack open the 3.X Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.

Artemis Entreri is 18th level. STR 14 DEX 20 CON 15 INT 16 WIS 16 CHA 13.

Assume he's had the benefits of ASIs at 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th level as standard for 3.X, assume best case scenario all four went to DEX, that's starting scores of STR 14 DEX 16 CON 15 INT 16 WIS 16 CHA 13.

That's 49 point buy, just under 200% the recommended 25 points for PCs or just over 150% of the highest suggested value of 32. That means that even if standard characters claw and bite their way to 18th level, they're going to be strictly inferior to the characters in the tie-in fiction, even though they're supposed to be the stars.

Drizzt is STR 13 DEX 20 CON 15 INT 17 WIS 17 CHA 14. First account for Drow mods, that's STR 13 DEX 18 CON 15 INT 15 WIS 17 CHA 12. ASIs, we're going to say that +2 DEX and +2 WIS.

STR 13 DEX 16 CON 15 WIS 15 CHA 12

Surprisingly, that is only 35 points, a mere 3 points above the most "high powered" variant, though he's sitting on a +2 Level Adjustment for his race.

It's galling when fiction based on game routinely features characters you can't actually play in the game.

and dragons have an even higher point buy. As do many demons and devils and genies. NPC’s are just another critter. That doesnt Mean they are there to slay.
 

Campbell

Relaxed Intensity
Monsters and NPCs are not built like PCs and do not level up in the same ways, but things like how various forms of magic work and other things that directly correspond to the fiction are still found on NPCs.
 
I don't own any of the campaign setting stuff for 4e or 5e, but let's crack open the 3.X Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.

Artemis Entreri is 18th level. STR 14 DEX 20 CON 15 INT 16 WIS 16 CHA 13.

Assume he's had the benefits of ASIs at 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th level as standard for 3.X, assume best case scenario all four went to DEX, that's starting scores of STR 14 DEX 16 CON 15 INT 16 WIS 16 CHA 13.

That's 49 point buy, just under 200% the recommended 25 points for PCs or just over 150% of the highest suggested value of 32. That means that even if standard characters claw and bite their way to 18th level, they're going to be strictly inferior to the characters in the tie-in fiction, even though they're supposed to be the stars.

Drizzt is STR 13 DEX 20 CON 15 INT 17 WIS 17 CHA 14. First account for Drow mods, that's STR 13 DEX 18 CON 15 INT 15 WIS 17 CHA 12. ASIs, we're going to say that +2 DEX and +2 WIS.

STR 13 DEX 16 CON 15 WIS 15 CHA 12

Surprisingly, that is only 35 points, a mere 3 points above the most "high powered" variant, though he's sitting on a +2 Level Adjustment for his race.

It's galling when fiction based on game routinely features characters you can't actually play in the game.
That is pretty atrocious! The oldest known statblock for VECNA HIMSELF (the god wizard that a lot of people dislike for his hax and OPness among other things) was actually built less aggressively if you assume elite array and normal advancement (accounting for turning into a lich and the level loss thereof)! The page i saw it on years ago (and book marked it because hes my favorite wizard lord) is no longer accessable but it was actually less absurd!

And the characters you mentioned after indid some comparing arent actually all that out of the norm for higher level npcs...it has pretty much IMMEDIATELY changed how i think im going to allow character building in future campaigns i dm! Wow...

Thankyou for laying that out for me. An eye opener. Im giving starting pcs flat increases they can choose to place either at creation or just increasing the increase they get from leveling. Havent decided which yet.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Also, even Crawford has said quite recently that Bards don’t have to sing or otherwise make music to cast their spells. It is entirely an option they have.
 

Campbell

Relaxed Intensity
Good point. There’s actually no reason at all the Bard couldn’t be a priest.
My Ancestral Guardian Barbarian is a heretical Acolyte of Moradin complete with a heretical Saga of Moradin he carries on his back. He is part of a sect that believes Moradin was the First Dwarf who earned his spot among the gods through acts of heroism. He intends to follow that path. Barbarians can be priests too!
 

FrogReaver

Adventurer
Good point. There’s actually no reason at all the Bard couldn’t be a priest.
In the real world many evangelists could be classified as a type of bard. They go around putting on an oratory performance to packed out buildings - Many evangelists also are very good musicians or singers. Heck they even often wow the crowds with amazing stories about far away people...
 

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