D&D 5E Is Concentration Bugging You?

[Jester David]

You problem doesn't line up with my game experience (current level 14). Note: Paladins get their aura bonus to pass concentration checks because they are saving throws. I've whacked the Paladin around *a lot* in game, and the times he has lost concentration have been like 1:10.

Also if casters - full or otherwise - really want to protect themselves against concentration failing, there are two feats that will help them.

Concentration adversely effects NPC spell casters a lot more than PC's, because they usually only do fight one combat per day. They can either focus on staying alive, doing damage, or doing crowd control, but not all three, which makes them ineffective opponents to fight against a lot of the time.

According to the DMG, a level 14 monster should be doing 87-92 damage each round. That's DCs of 43-46. Multiattack does take some of the sting off that, which helps (as does using lots of lower level monsters). But two attacks dealing 44 damage is still two DC 22 Concentration checks. The paladin should still be having *some* troubles, especially since Con isn't one of their saving throws, so they don't get proficiency.

But the paladin should also be doing much better than the poor ranger who also can't take Con saves and doesn't have an aura boosting their saving throws. Poor, poor melee rangers.

 

[Zaran]

Instead of allowing more than one concentration I would just get rid of the Losing concentration part. don't make it a save at all. You have one concentration you can do and it stays up until the spell ends or you cast another concentration. If someone wants to disrupt your spell, dispell magic.

 

[Schmoe]

I sort of feel an alternate solution is to re-examine spells that have a duration of concentration: In the example above, my game-intuition says only Spider Climb should be a concentration spell.

Agreed, that's the way I would go too. If there are specific spells that don't make sense as concentration, then adjust those. Overall I am quite happy with how concentration limits spellcasting.

 

[keterys]

For NPCs I'd use potions. Potions and magic items. Potions, magic items, and lair effects. Potions, magic items, lair effects, and lackeys. Potions, magic items, lair effects, lackeys, and that’s all my NPCs need.

Potions and magic items don't bypass concentration requirements.

Lair effects, lackeys, and special NPC abilities all work just fine, of course.

Like you can have a legendary archmage whose legendary ability is he can cast and maintain a concentration spell with each legendary action. But that would bother some people who hate it when NPCs can do something PCs can't (and presumably vice versa).

 

[KarinsDad]

I generally like the concentration rules as they are. But I strongly agree with the above. I think your proposed solution is good except I would just make it one check...either you maintain concentration on all your spells or you do not. Having three spells ruined in one go would really suck so there is a risk to balance the benefits.

I do see the speed improvement of this.

But, losing 3 spells due to one roll? Harsh.

Most PCs have a Con save of +2 (Con is a bit dot deal for my players).

So if one were to still increase the chance of failure, 55% chance of all three spells failing / 45% chance no spells failing vs. 16.6% all three, 30.8% two fail, 33.4% one fails, and 9% none failing.

And a big monster slamming the PC would be a really high chance of all failing. I think my players would prefer for at least some of the spells staying up most of the time, so I think I'll pass on this solution. But, it's a nice alternative.

 

[Staffan]

That entire question and answer:



It just seems to me that he is not talking about making sure that the third party vendors know how the game works before putting out an OGL, not that that two concentration spells up at the same time is unbalanced. I think he is using the term broken to mean that the third party vendor is breaking the core rules of the game by doing this, not that for someone in a home game to do so would be unbalanced.

It seems like you took this out of context because if he is actually talking about the game being broken with multiple concentration spells (as you suggest), then that would just be rambling on his part. Concentration has nothing to do with OGLs or to the question that he is answering. But vendors changing the rules of concentration and ignoring the OGL in that respect, does have something to do with the question he is answering.

I think it's pretty clear that he's using the concentration limit as an example of something that (a) will break the game if removed, and (b) is not immediately apparent.

And if the limit on concentration means that Manshoon is not a viable solo enemy for a group of high-level PCs, but needs minions to shield himself from their attacks... I'll call that a win.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Yeah IMO a Wizardly type should never be a solo BBEG, makes no genre sense. They have minions and traps and stuff to keep people away from them! Same as the idea of solo playing a Wiz/MU in DnD is risky to say the least.

 

[KarinsDad]

I think it's pretty clear that he's using the concentration limit as an example of something that (a) will break the game if removed, and (b) is not immediately apparent.

It's not clear that he is explicitly saying that at all. This is how the media spins things. They take one sentence out of context and literally interpret it to mean something else. But if you want to interpret it that way, fine. I don't think that he would be dumb enough to think that because it obviously is not going to break the game. The ability to stack multiple buffs have been around since day one and the game was not broken. 3E had issues with it, but that's due to other aspects of 3E (like many different one hour per level and 10 minutes per level buff spells). But, interpret his example of how a third party vendor can potentially screw up the game for DMs without intending to, any way you want to.

And if the limit on concentration means that Manshoon is not a viable solo enemy for a group of high-level PCs, but needs minions to shield himself from their attacks... I'll call that a win.

That's fine for your game. In my game, I want the PCs peeing in their pants if they encounter Manshoon. Ditto for Dragons (who have more spells in my game than in even the variant Monster Manual sidebar).

The nice thing about about the concentration house rule that I proposed is that in a battle against a solo caster like Manshoon, some of those multiple concentration spells will be knocked out by PCs attacking. Some stay up, others blink out. So with enough firepower, the PCs can start weakening his protections (and his other effects like Web). Also, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. He can have up multiple buffs, but so can the PCs (and, he can knock out some of their multiple buffs easier too). Pros and Cons.

The very fact that multiple concentration spells can and will be easily disrupted by definition makes having them "not broken". Stronger / more versatile than the core rules, sure. But, easy enough to overcome. A single 5th level Fireball forces a character with three concentration spells up to make 3 DC 18 Cons saving throws on average. Hardly game breaking.

 

[Paraxis]

I think the current concentration rules are holding up fine. They keep the number of buffs to a manageable number, and makes people alter tactics a bit.

I do think some of the npc's/monsters need to get a boost. So how about letting each type special traits on page 10 of the MM have a concentration spell up, so Innate Spellcasting, Spellcasting, and Psionics each has a potential concentration effect going on.

So a mind flayer arcanist could have dominate monster and telekinesis up at the same time.

Speaking of abilities for monsters don't think at-will abilities should count either, so the above mind flayer could levitate and detect thoughts at the same time, while dominating a monster. I mean that sounds like exactly the kind of thing a mind flayer arcanist should be doing.

PC's wont have to worry about much of this I mean a tiefling or drow could keep darkness up (Innate Spellcasting) while maintaining a concentration spell he cast from his class.

Also if we consider cantrips At-Will abilities that means characters could keep dancing lights, mage hand, friends, resistance, and true strike up while having one other concentration spell going. I don't think that will break the game.

 

[DaveDash]

According to the DMG, a level 14 monster should be doing 87-92 damage each round. That's DCs of 43-46. Multiattack does take some of the sting off that, which helps (as does using lots of lower level monsters). But two attacks dealing 44 damage is still two DC 22 Concentration checks. The paladin should still be having *some* troubles, especially since Con isn't one of their saving throws, so they don't get proficiency.

But the paladin should also be doing much better than the poor ranger who also can't take Con saves and doesn't have an aura boosting their saving throws. Poor, poor melee rangers.

It doesn't really work that way. Mostly they fight CR5-CR14 (sometimes higher), but the way the game works is there are generally larger groups of lower CRs. Even so though a CR14 has anywhere from +8 - +10 attack bonus vs 20 or 22 AC. Most of his spells go on Divine Smite, if he is concentrating it's usually Shield of Faith or Haste. That puts the "big hit" DCs down around 18-20 average DPR, and multiple small hits around 10.

He's at +6 con saving throw, if he cared he could be at +11 (resilience) but he doesn't care so much because again most of his spells go on divine smite.

The other thing to note when the party comes across something that does single big hits (ie a CR15 Banshee that hit for 15d10 necrotic), they use abilities like cutting words or warding flare to force those big hits to miss.

This is why my game experience differs from the otherwise sound theorycrafting.

I've also got a War Cleric who concentration is much more important for. He is +11, and later on gets resistance to damage, meaning only things like Dragon's breath break his concentration usually.