Is D&D outdated ?

Mortaneus · Feb 12, 2003

Two articles that make for interesting reading:

HERE

and

HERE

Shadowlord · Feb 12, 2003

Joshua Dyal said:
The classes being overly generic is certainly a matter of opinion that is -- at best -- controversial (I love 'em, for instance), although I'd agree that the non-lethal damage is a poor substitute for subdual damage, and that seems to have been poorly recieved as well.

Still, with the exception of that, d20 Modern is, IMO, a much better game than D&D. It plays the same way, yet takes much less space to explain, is more widely applicable to a broad base of possible settings, and it actually gives you new stuff that D&D, for all it's three books, doesn't do at this point.

Exactly what I meant !!

In the heat of the game you spend more time exploring, investigating...roleplaying than truly fighting, unless you're playing a HeroQuest-type game. But then in D&D there aren't many lines devoted to what you just spend most time doing. It's all about combat...-sigh-

reiella · Feb 12, 2003

Use One Die mechanic in ALternity? What?

That confuses me...

Ok, time to get out my Alternity Book...

Hmm, Wow opened right up to as well.

Situation Die Steps...

And about the "What is DM supposed to do without support" in regards to world... The DMG gives support, a good bit of it independant of the rules base. Chapter 1. Parts of Chapter 3, 4,5, and most of 6. Of course, for assistance with that. The beautiful thing is. It's rules indepedant. A good fantasy book gives you an equal benefit for how to establish environments for the game.

[ Edited to reduce harsh tone, Apologies if offense taken ]

shouit · Feb 12, 2003

jester47 said:
In fact when I talk to the non-agmers about RPGs they really don't know what I mean when I say "roleplaying game," they give me this look like "wha?" and then I say Dungeons and Dragons, and all of a sudden they know what I am talking about.

This has always been the case though.

Sagan Darkside · Feb 12, 2003

Re: Re: Re: Is D&D outdated ?

Shadowlord said:
Combat "complicated" ? Maybe "boring" due to the depth of the rules.

Err- ok. If you don't think combat is a complicated matter, then there is little I can do to change that. But considering your tone- I suspect your one of those "true" roleplayers (or a troll) . So, on that note you are probably playing the wrong game.

You don't solve a mystery with a Search check!

It was sarcasm- in other words- one does not need rules to perform a mystery. I have run/written enough of them to realize they are primarily rp encounters.

If these terms are alien to you, you probably did never see the best aspects of RPG and was playing an advanced version of Heroquest

Ahh, there is more of that tone.

But on a snide-less response: I don't need rules to make a background for a character.

Exactly, and what must a DM do without any support ?! Wrld Ex is more than silly skill checks; it's about making the world come alife! It lets players explore the setting and "feel" it.

None of which rules are going to "support". The dm either has the knack or they don't.

Good luck to you.
SD

Orias · Feb 12, 2003

I wouldn't say that D&D is "out-dated", I think it is still running strong, & if I am correct, is the most popular RPG even today.

That doesn't mean I think D&D d20 is the most perfect a system can get. I still have yet to see d20 Modern, but I do remember seeing that they combined several feats into one, which kind of bothered me. I think there is alot wrong with d20, & I am in the process of creating my own system (which probably will suck, but I'll think it's good) to deal with things I don't like about D&D.

D&D is a good system for playing a fun game, but it can get monotonous in the rules & is EXTREMELY unrealistic. I don't like the idea that a character can take 5 or 6 axe blows to the face. I prefer a more realistic combat system, but not to the degree of Role Master. But that doesn't mean I think it is "outdated".

Henry · Feb 12, 2003

First of all, Shadowlord, Welcome to the boards! I hope that you find plenty to interest you here! If D&D doesn't turn out to be your cup of tea, plenty of other RPG's (mostly d20 stuff, but also Shadowrun and others) get discussed on other forums.

Second, this goes out to all: Let's please kill all the harsh language and accusations. Everyone is due respect here - let's keep it that way. No personal attacks, please - everyone's gaming style is their own.

Henry · Feb 12, 2003

Orias said:
I wouldn't say that D&D is "out-dated", I think it is still running strong, & if I am correct, is the most popular RPG even today.

That doesn't mean I think D&D d20 is the most perfect a system can get. I still have yet to see d20 Modern, but I do remember seeing that they combined several feats into one, which kind of bothered me. I think there is alot wrong with d20, & I am in the process of creating my own system (which probably will suck, but I'll think it's good) to deal with things I don't like about D&D.

D&D is a good system for playing a fun game, but it can get monotonous in the rules & is EXTREMELY unrealistic. I don't like the idea that a character can take 5 or 6 axe blows to the face. I prefer a more realistic combat system, but not to the degree of Role Master. But that doesn't mean I think it is "outdated".

Further, calling a game of medieval-genre fantasy "outdated" is kind of humorous anyway, at least im my opinion. It's going to look a little un-modern anyway.

The D20 base system, as a general rule, is great for 75% of all gaming out there. Most games are heroic in scope, and cinematic in action to varying degree; but D&D is not the end all and be all, and neither is d20. There's room for diceless, pseudo-realism, and other types I cannot bring to mind right now.

I have no problem with hit points, because of their simplicity - but our group doesn't describe it as "axe blows to the face", but glancing blows, nasty cuts that would have split your stomach open had it been an inch deeper," and every other kind of descriptor to relay actual damage without massive trauma. Massive trauma is saved for your last two or three HP.

The beauty of hit points is that it covers everything from hard damage to glancing blows.

And Shadowlord, before condeming D&D as being suitable for mindless violence only, I highly urge you to check out other groups who use it for engauging tales of drama, and also check out our Story Hour Forum, which are DIRECTLY stemmed from the gaming sessions of gamers just like you and me, who play D&D regularly, and share their heroic tales they create with all of us.

P.S. I'l take Piratecat's Story Hour over J.R.R. Tolkien or George R.R. Martin any day.

Zappo · Feb 12, 2003

Welcome to the boards!

I find that rules for the psychological/social aspects of the game must be used with caution. Just as with combat, there is a limit beyond which rule complexity gets in the way instead of facilitating.

While the exact limit varies from player to player, it is generally accepted that combat needs many more rules than any other action. Even in the games where combat is generally avoided (WW, CoC), the rules for combat are longer and more complex than the rules for any other action.

I have personally found that the degree of rule complexity for both combat and non-combat is almost perfect in D&D, and that is why I play this game. I would like to see the feat system applied to social aspects, but that's about it.

I have played many other systems and it seems to me that complex psycho/social rules (such as for example those of the WW games) get severely in the way of good roleplaying instead of enhancing it, often causing a character to act weirdly and against the will of the player just because of a fluke of the die.