Is darkness broken

[eriktheguy]

I've searched with google but (surprisingly) can't find threads detailing this problem.

Am I the only one that sees massive problems with monsters that have a darkness power?

I was playing a campaign run by my friend and we had to fight some monsters with a darkness ability. I don't remember the specific creature, but they may have been Umbral Sprite Swarms (MM2).
They had darkness that filled the (locked) room we were in, and more than one of them had this ability. Since it was recharge (with multiple casters), the entire encounter was fought in darkness.

It reminded me of my group's first fight with a black dragon. We only killed the dragon because:
-We had the jump on it
-It was an open battlefield
-It was alone
-The rogue used 'walking wounded' on it

The umbral dudes were kicking our asses until the DM tossed us a bone or we somehow escaped (I don't remember which). I could never understand why the makers of 4e created this darkness power.
To me it reads:
For the remainder of the combat the monsters gain +5 defenses and +2 to hit if they roll to recharge.

With the black dragon, only characters with area powers were doing anything until the one turn it didn't recharge (at which point it went down immediately).

How can you cancel darkness? In earlier editions there were level 1 cleric spells that could cancel it, but for the typical 4e party I can't think of any contingencies. Is there anything other than 'you aren't screwed if you bought this item or learned this utility power'?

 

[Infiniti2000]

IMO, the majority of the problem is encounter design. For example, if no one in the party had ranged attacks, then you could similarly ask the question, "Are flying monsters broken?" Multiple darkness-wielding monsters in a sealed room, particularly swarms!, is asking for trouble. The DM needs to understand the repercussions of his encounter design, so I'd look to that as the first culprit. Was there any other monster types in the encounter? If not, IMO that's another indicator of a bad design. Unlike previous editions, 4E really needs different roles, etc., on both sides of the battle.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Might the fact that you were fighting in a locked room you couldn't get out of be a better indication of your party's problem than the rules for Darkness itself?

Yes, you were fighting monsters with a permanent +5 AC / +2 attack... but is that the rules fault? No. That was your DM's decision. He put you there. So the rule can't be considered "broken", because your problem only appeared in a small, specific window of a case.

Now the question really should be... did your DM design this particular encounter with the intent of making it harder due to overlapping Darkness zones? If he knew that he wanted the EL of fight a little higher than the monsters themselves would indicate, then doing what he did makes a lot of sense.

So don't immediately go to the assumption that rules are "broken" just because your DM used them in very specific ways that made things more difficult for you. Because those specifics are more often than not the reason why your party is havng problems, not because the rule itself is bad.

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

Just curious, would any of the following have made a difference:

Glowstone

Brilliant Energy Weapon

Sunsword

Thanks!

 

[eriktheguy]

I'll certainly admit that the encounter was poorly designed. The DM that does this is a more spontaneous and occasional DM than me. He certainly doesn't waste as much time discussing rules and theory on forums as I do. His adventures can be good but are really hit and miss. My only real problem is that the adventures he runs often make the players feel like they had no choice but to screw themselves over (i.e. we had to get to the end of this dungeon, but as soon as we enter room 'x' it becomes locked and dark).

My question is that overall, doesn't darkness seem like an improperly balanced power? At the bare minimum it gives a good bonus to defense and hit for a turn, something that most other powers can't. In 4e most powers like 'illusions' and 'death attacks' have been changed to 'psychic damage + effect'. If darkness were to follow the same power it might be 'necrotic damage and -2 to hit' on a few targets and require attack rolls.
But the current build of darkness gives everyone -5 to hit without attacks or saves. It just seems to break the unwritten balance rules of 4e that other powers are forced to follow.

 

[DEFCON 1]

4E in no way equates monster powers with character powers. They are both on different scales. And I'm pretty sure that monsters that have the Darkness power are probably deficient in other areas to make up the balance.

 

[Ryujin]

Interestingly, I don't see any Resist Necrotic in the listings for Umbral Sprite. It would seem that if there were multiple swarms with overlapping swarms in the range of Darkwave, they'd be killing each other with their Vulnerability 5 (close/area attacks). They do have Blindsight though, so aren't effected by the darkness generated by each other.

In many cases, like with Drow for instance, one using darkness can screw the others out of getting their attacks in well, because they have no ability to see in the other creature's darkness.

 

[lukelightning]

Interestingly, I don't see any Resist Necrotic in the listings for Umbral Sprite. It would seem that if there were multiple swarms with overlapping swarms in the range of Darkwave, they'd be killing each other with their Vulnerability 5 (close/area attacks).

I attacked my players with 3 swarms... but it was outside and the swarms spread out to try to avoid hitting each other. They did hit each other a few times; I figured when one swarm could blast three or more people but accidentally hit another swarm, the evil little bastards would go for it, regardless of friendly fire.

 

[MrMyth]

I don't see Darkness as the end of the world since, as with any dangerous bit of terrain or nasty zone, you can usually move away from it and draw the enemy out. It mainly becomes truly vicious when you can't escape (your situation), or when facing a ranged enemy that can hide in it or powerful enemy who can lurk in it recharging abilities. Which are pretty rare, and really, if the DM is intent on playing things in such a fashion, there are plenty of ways to make fights long, slow and tiresome for the players.

 

[Hazard_53188]

Darkness is something that you definitely want to use sparingly. Once in a while it is an interesting twist but it can dominate the encounter and frustrate the players.