Is Dying Such a Bad Thing?

[Dannyalcatraz]

Let's be honest now.

I can count on my hands the number of movies et al I've seen that ended with the main character 1) dead or 2) failing the mission and thus losing big.

Its most common in modern horror, especially in films that are to be part of a franchise.

In there, you'll find the poignant deaths of the heroes in certain zombie movies (mistaken for zombies themselves, or doing a noble suicidal sacrifice, or some such), the guys who go up against the main character of a franchise centered around an immortal anti-hero, or quasi-survivor fiction movies with twist endings (the end of the movie isn't the end of the story- the challenge continues...).

 

[Doug McCrae]

There has to be a chance of failure, or else it's all just wanking.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

 

[Rechan]

Its most common in modern horror, especially in films that are to be part of a franchise..

Got me there. But I think those are 1) exceptions to the rule, and 2) tropes of that specific genre (zombie films). Although really, consider the amount of horror movies where the Main Character survives vs is killed in the end, you'd have an immensely lopsided ratio. Even in franchises (ala Nightmare on Elm St/Friday the 13th/Halloween) the main character almost always survives because they have to beat the franchise's villain.

 

[Nifft]

There has to be a chance of failure, or else it's all just wanking.

I have some bad news for you.. it's actually all just wanking either way.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Doug McCrae]

Its most common in modern horror, especially in films that are to be part of a franchise.

Does the Final Girl bit actually work in an rpg? You've got all but one of the players sitting on their hands.

And thus unable to wank, which is, ofc, the whole point of roleplaying.

 

[EP]

Raise Dead's been brought up a couple of times here and I can't stand that spell/ritual (based on whichever version of D&D you're playing). Any campaign I've ever started begins with two rules: no bags of holding and no Raise Dead. That doesn't mean characters can't come back from the dead but you have to work for it and do something other than spend XP/GP/mana or whatever. I've played in old campaigns where we journeyed to the planes to bring someone back and it damn near cost us the rest of the party. One of the best adventures I've ever played because of that personal touch.

I should point out that I've worked on a project for 4e that is nothing BUT bringing characters back from the dead. I'm not completely against it. I was just taken aback by how option-less death seemed to the players at that time. Especially as we were fending off a massive army to save innocent lives. It seemed that by not wanting to get their characters killed, they were only saying they should do the right thing and were not willing to do whatever it took to achieve it. And this includes some good-aligned characters sworn to protect the innocent. There's almost a part of me now that wants to force my character into a situation where he drops to less than 0 hp and might not make it out alive. Even refuse to play the character again should the party raise him. Not that it could come to that. But to demonstrate his willingness to die for a cause rather than just talk about it. For me, that was the real issue at hand.

So this all brings up another question? Is the game still interesting if you are guaranteed that your character will never die? If you were assured immortality (at least as far as the highest level in whatever game you play), would you get the same thrill in playing?

 

[EP]

Does the Final Girl bit actually work in an rpg? You've got all but one of the players sitting on their hands.

And thus unable to wank, which is, ofc, the whole point of roleplaying.

We used to have a Hallowe'en tradition playing Horror Rules with that same priniciple but as a one-shot. Turns it into a board game style of RPG - there can be only one. It's a nice break and is loads of fun when you embrace the style and go over the top.

Especially when you tell grown men they're all high school cheerleaders camping in the woods. Within seconds, there's a pillow fight, skinny dipping, and full-out lesbianism. NOW we're talking about some wanking. Oh, and there was something about a crazed serial killer but I don't remember that part.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Got me there. But I think those are 1) exceptions to the rule, and 2) tropes of that specific genre (zombie films).

Oh, clearly 100% correct, but it did bear pointing out.

Although really, consider the amount of horror movies where the Main Character survives vs is killed in the end, you'd have an immensely lopsided ratio. Even in franchises (ala Nightmare on Elm St/Friday the 13th/Halloween) the main character almost always survives because they have to beat the franchise's villain.

In things like NoES, F13 and Halloween, only a few characters have survived. Most survivors in those series showed up after the villain has been disabled or restrained. Some survive for 1 or 2 movies, then die. Some survive, but in a state of diminished sanity or with horrible injuries.

Other franchises, though, are less forgiving.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Does the Final Girl bit actually work in an rpg? You've got all but one of the players sitting on their hands.

It does sometimes, if you prep for it: give the players something else to do, save the major carnage for the end of the session. That kind of thing.

 

[Rechan]

So this all brings up another question? Is the game still interesting if you are guaranteed that your character will never die? If you were assured immortality (at least as far as the highest level in whatever game you play), would you get the same thrill in playing?

Depends on the game and the genre.

In Paranoia, the point is to die. Die the least, but die none the less. In the most entertaining ways fashionable. If you have death immunity, it's pointless.

A game like Mouseguard, death really isn't an option. Failure means that things get more complicated. If you fail to climb up a cliff over a river, you don't fall off and drown - your character is swept down the river and now everyone must rush to save you. (Failure in this game means success With Complications).

Other games, death isn't really the point. Some are masochistic in nature - the point (or the risk) is having bad things happen to you, and if you die that's the easy way out. Others death isn't the focus at all. Primetime Adventures is just emulating a TV show via roleplaying. LARPing is just about interacting and acting a part (at least ye olde Vampire LARPs).

I've heard of some groups that death is not allowed; a PC can only die if the player agrees to it. And yet those groups still enjoy their games and have risks and failure. There was a thread about this a few years ago here on ENWorld.

The only thing I need in my gaming is the social interaction, telling good stories, and having a good time. It really doesn't matter what we're doing as long as it's not boring. If I get that, I'm satisfied, risk or no.