Is Eberron a dead world yet?

[rounser]

Other pulp genres that Eberron directly supports: detective/mystery, lost worlds, horror/occult, war, "Men's Adventure".

See, this is the ridiculous thing about Eberron - it's not special in this respect, you could do any of these in near any D&D setting. D&D is pulp fantasy, it just needs the right adventure to pull these off. Eberron is so kitchen sunk that it can't specialise in the same way Ravenloft can, not even with action points and the lightning rail. The whole pulp thing is an auteuristic gimmick, and DOA.

If they were jaded with D&D and yearning for something to simulate their favourite movies, WOTC should have played a few games of Adventure! to get it out of their systems, IMO. D&D can do something in the spirit of Indiana Jones and Pirates of the Carribbean already, without the 1930s allusions. D&D has it's own thing going on, it doesn't have to go anachronistic.

If it did go anachronistic, at least they could have gone uncompromising and done an Arcanum style setting, all black powder and technomagic. That would have been cool. Instead, we've got this halfway compromise which has the flavour all wrong, and looks like it was designed by committee.

 

[Waldorf]

No, the salt mines are home of one of the richest, most powerful, and widespread family of dwarfs.

Heh. That's what Wee Jas said... just before I forced her into submission.

 

[Glyfair]

See, this is the ridiculous thing about Eberron - it's not special in this respect, you could do any of these in near any D&D setting.

Unlike Ravenloft, because you can't do horror in standard D&D or Planescape because you can't do planar adventures in standard D&D?

Eberron is so kitchen sunk that it can't specialise in the same way Ravenloft can, not even with action points and the lightning rail.

I think the specialized campaign settings that limit themselves to very specific genres are going to only be done by 3rd party companies. Maybe you'll see one book settings (with no support beyond the one book, ala Ghostwalk), but it doesn't seem to be in WotC's plans any time soon.

A limited setting is going to be just that, limited. It might become a cult favorite, with a loyal following for years. However, I don't think you'll find any such setting with long term popular success, and that's what WotC wants.

 

[rounser]

Unlike Ravenloft, because you can't do horror in standard D&D

You didn't read my post, did you?

 

[PallidPatience]

I think it was a witty retort, rounser. He is assuming that you will defend those settings while renouncing Eberron. Therefore, he is pointing out the inconsistency in that assumed defense.

 

[rounser]

I think it was a witty retort, rounser. He is assuming that you will defend those settings while renouncing Eberron. Therefore, he is pointing out the inconsistency in that assumed defense.

I've already stated that Eberron isn't a specialist because it kitchen sinks so much, so it's no "Ravenloft for pulp". That takes away it's aspiration towards supporting pulp more than joe average D&D setting.

So...less witty retort than completely missing the point, maybe.

 

[Glyfair]

I've already stated that Eberron isn't a specialist because it kitchen sinks so much, so it's no "Ravenloft for pulp".

So...less witty retort than completely missing the point, maybe.

Speaking of not reading the post, I pointed out that you won't find WotC publishing a specialist setting (i.e. one with a single overriding theme) in an ongoing series (in fact, in direct response to this comment of yours). It won't happen.

Can you do the pulp themes with a pulp feel in Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk (the two ongoing campaign settings published by WotC or WotC controlled organizations)? Yes. Are they designed to do it as well? No.

Eberron has tools and a feel that directly supports a large number of the pulp fiction published during its strongest period. Look at the central history of the setting. It's based on the situation in Europe during the period when those pulps were published.

Are Airships and Lightning Rails put in Eberron to give the world a technological or steampunk feel? No. They are put in their because quick air travel and land travel are important to many of the pulpish plots and scenes. They could have spent a long time creating something that filled the role that didn't feel like magic trains or blimps. However, it would have been a lot of effort for something that was done easier, and probably wouldn't have done it as well.

 

[rounser]

Speaking of not reading the post, I pointed out that you won't find WotC publishing a specialist setting (i.e. one with a single overriding theme) in an ongoing series (in fact, in direct response to this comment of yours). It won't happen.

I'm not asking them to, but they shouldn't pretend that their kitchen sink is focused, when it isn't. The introduction to the Eberron campaign setting book is just wishful thinking IMO.

Eberron has tools and a feel that directly supports a large number of the pulp fiction published during its strongest period. Look at the central history of the setting. It's based on the situation in Europe during the period when those pulps were published.

Meh. A big war ended. From the Ashes Greyhawk, anyone? Post War of the Lance DL anyone?

Are Airships and Lightning Rails put in Eberron to give the world a technological or steampunk feel? No. They are put in their because quick air travel and land travel are important to many of the pulpish plots and scenes. They could have spent a long time creating something that filled the role that didn't feel like magic trains or blimps. However, it would have been a lot of effort for something that was done easier, and probably wouldn't have done it as well.

Double meh. If that's all it takes to "pulp up" a setting, then FR's and Mystara's flying ships and flying cities and Dragonlance's dragon riders, flying citadels and gnomish contraptions make those settings just as "pulp" as Eberron. Next.

 

[Glyfair]

I'm not asking them to, but they shouldn't pretend that their kitchen sink is focused, when it isn't. The introduction to the Eberron campaign setting book is just wishful thinking IMO.

Who said it was focused? I think it has an overall theme, but not a particularly focused one.

Meh. A big war ended. From the Ashes Greyhawk, anyone?

I'm not familiar with the details of FtA, but it's not just that a big war ended. A big war ended without any true resolution, with war simmering ready to break out any second. There are other parallels to the situation in Europe as well. It's not a direct analogue, and it shouldn't be.

Double meh. If that's all it takes to "pulp up" a setting, then FR's flying ships and Dragonlance's dragon riders, flying citadels and gnomish contraptions make those settings just as "pulp" as Eberron. Next.

Who said that's what makes it a pulp setting? I said they were put into the setting to facilitate themes in pulp adventures, There are plenty of settings with airships, for example, that don't have a particular pulp feel.

What makes Eberron good at doing certain genres of pulp?

1) Action Points: Creates a setting where the heroes have an edge on their opposition (villains don't get action points except in rare situations, and not at a heroes level). Could it be done differently, with a better pulp feel? Sure. That doesn't negate the tool.

2) Heroes stand out: Eberron NPCs are NPCs (PC classes are rare), and the PCs don't really have high level characters they can run to for help. Once a PC reaches mid-level, they are movers and shakers. That also means if they fail than there is going to be a big mess, because the backup won't be as powerful as the PCs.

3) There are shades of gray in alignment: No, alignment hasn't been eliminated (sticking to the D&D rules was part of the contest rules). However, there are a lot of things that make alignment a much trickier situation in Eberron compared to the standard D&D campaign setting. Consider that even the most chaotic evil priest of the Silver Flame will detect as lawful and good, not as chaotic and evil as one example of this.

4) Atmosphere: As I mentioned the campaign has gone to pains to create the atmosphere of the pulps. The political atmosphere is Post-WWI Europe. Xen'drik covers the lost mysterious continent. Lighting Rails and Airships make fast travel much easier, without relying on the teleport spell (which is very, very rare because of the low level of NPCs in the campaign).

Something that's rarely mentioned is that the kalashtar and Dreaming Dark conflict draws somewhat from the 50's cold war feel, which was important to the post WWII pulpish fiction.

Do these things make it pulp? I wouldn't say that. However they do facilitate the pulp stories.

 

[rounser]

What makes Eberron good at doing certain genres of pulp?

Very little beyond smoke and mirrors. The standard D&D game makes heroes special by default; you don't need action points or low level NPCs to do that - any player knows that the PCs have plot protection, in that they're challenged appropriately according to their level. The campaign focuses on them and their actions by default.

As for your war and lost world, post wars FtA and the Amedio Jungle or Hepmonaland would do fine. Or post Black Eagle Barony vs Karameikos and a trip to the Isle of Dread. Or post Time of Troubles FR and Chult.

Something that's rarely mentioned is that the kalashtar and Dreaming Dark conflict draws somewhat from the 50's cold war feel, which was important to the post WWII pulpish fiction.

I must be imagining the Zhentarim, Scarlet Brotherhood, Cult of the Dragon, Circle of Eight, Harpers, Mage of the Valley, Veiled Society etc.

I'm so glad Eberron has brought something new to the table other than kewl powerz racez for PCs, confused themes, anachronisms and a whole lot of hype.