Is Hackmaster a joke?

[trancejeremy]

I see Hackmaster not as a joke, but a mockery of D&D and it's fans. I see it as making fun of me. So obviously I'm not going to like it.

I happen to like 1st edition AD&D and basic D&D. So I am not amused when I see them redoing modules from those systems, only with silly new names ("Smackdown the Slavers", "Little Keep on the Borderlands", etc), and stupid jokes about munchkins, I'm offended.

If they were actually funny, I might see it as a parody. But they are largely making the same exact jokes/points as the elitist gamers are making.

If Kenzer really likes the original D&D so much, why aren't they publishing new modules for them? They have the rights. Instead, all we get is a bunch of jokes putting down the fans of those games.

 

[CSB046]

I see Hackmaster not as a joke, but a mockery of D&D and it's fans. I see it as making fun of me. So obviously I'm not going to like it.

I happen to like 1st edition AD&D and basic D&D.

I respect your opinion on this, even though I don't happen to agree.

If you're right, though, it seems like an awfully strange way for Kenzer to put out a successful game line. I LOVE first-edition AD&D and the old D&D games, as do you and many of the people here. Many of the people who love and praise Hackmaster also loved first-edition AD&D, and I strongly suspect many, if not all, of the people actually WRITING Hackmaster loved first-edition AD&D.

Seriously mocking your core audience is simply not a good way to do business. As I mentioned much, much earlier in this thread, Kenzer may be laughing WITH us fans of the earlier games, but I seriously doubt they've spent so much money on these products to laugh AT and potentially alienate their own audience. If everyone felt as mocked as you clearly do (and again, you have every right to that viewpoint), the entire line would have died out long before now.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

never mind

 

[Psion]

I'm a fan of old school games, so I'll state it clearly - it certainly doesn't offend me, and I don't feel mocked in the slightest.

Just because you don't feel that way doesn't obligate him not to feel that way.

That said, I personally don't feel much mocking coming from HM (though there is a d20 game I do feel that way about.) I just have trouble taking it seriously, and I don't have much fun in games I can't take seriously for more than a session or two, which means to me that investing in a major game like HM is out of the question for me.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

never mind

 

[ColonelHardisson]

The stars are right...?

Is Mercury in retrograde? This thread and a few others certainly feel like it is...

 

[EricNoah]

My admittedly brief read-through of some of the HM books left me confused. It seemed like a strange combination of a) a parody of an RPG set up to spoof or skewer high-power "munchkin" gaming b) a loving tribute to high-power "munchkin" gaming and c) a serious attempt at AD&D 3rd edition. There's an inconsistent tone, and the marketing (the name Hackmaster, the cover illustrations -- i.e. the stuff you can see on the outside) seems to lean toward the parody side more to me.

I can see why people are confused about its purpose, why people might believe they're justified in judging this particular game by its cover ("silly titles, gory over-the-top cover illustrations -- they must be jokes"), and why those assumptions might cheese off people who like the game and know it better.

 

[Dinkeldog]

Yes, but he's also in that group that he feels is being mocked, so you're no more valid than he is. I'll come right out and agree that there is some mocking going on, after all KoDT was a comic mocking specific gaming groups, gamer types, and game styles. If one felt that KoDT was negative, how would they not feel that HackMaster was mocking, as well?

 

[Dinkeldog]

Re: The stars are right...?

Is Mercury in retrograde? This thread and a few others certainly feel like it is...

Apparently it is. Personally, I think Mercury should quit mocking us and just go backwards all the time.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

My admittedly brief read-through of some of the HM books left me confused. It seemed like a strange combination of a) a parody of an RPG set up to spoof or skewer high-power "munchkin" gaming b) a loving tribute to high-power "munchkin" gaming and c) a serious attempt at AD&D 3rd edition. There's an inconsistent tone, and the marketing (the name Hackmaster, the cover illustrations -- i.e. the stuff you can see on the outside) seems to lean toward the parody side more to me.

I can see why people are confused about its purpose, why people might believe they're justified in judging this particular game by its cover ("silly titles, gory over-the-top cover illustrations -- they must be jokes"), and why those assumptions might cheese off people who like the game and know it better.

I concede that this is true, for the most part. It's definitely a failing that the "fourth wall" wasn't broken enough to let people in on the joke.