D&D 4E Is Intelligence 4e's dump stat?

[illithian]

The following is taken from R&C page 67. "A rogue with a high intelligence score gains a flat bonus to all trained skill checks.

So no i dont think int si the dump stat at least not for the rogue

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

In 3e, Intelligence was useful to every class -- not as useful as Con, but something you often didn't want to put a negative score into, especially given how miserly skill points were handed out.

In 3.5, Clerics, Fighters, Paladins, and Sorcerers, tended to dump Intelligence like there was no tomorrow. Not only do they generally have poor skill lists, but there are essentially no penalties to having 3 Int versus having 9 for them, thanks to the skill rules. Aside from that, Monks rarely had the Int they wanted, and Barbarians, who oddly enough had use for it, rarely wanted it, since people tend to more often than not play them for the sake of being a big dumb guy with an axe.

Int was hardly a great stat in 3.5, regardless of how it turns out in 4E.

 

[The Little Raven]

Intelligence = Clever?

I've never thought so. There are plenty of geniuses that aren't clever in the slightest.

Ability to reason... ability to retain knowledge... but ability to think on your feet? Nah.

That's Wisdom (perception, worldliness, intuition, common sense).

 

[Oldtimer]

I am only taking a que from Star Wars Saga Edition, but the bonus skills provided by Int are not listed in the class descriptions there either. They are listed under the Intelligence attribute, and they are mentioned under the race human.

You must have a different rulebook than I have...

Class skills (trained in 3 + Int modifier): Climb, Endurance, Initiative, Jump, Knowledge (tactics), Mechanics, Perception, Pilot, Swim, Treat Injury, Use Computer

 

[hong]

What would be cool is if Int didn't just give out more skill ranks, but gave you new ways to use the skills you already have. I could see Int-based feats that did things like:

- reuse a 1/encounter ability
- reroll a skill check
- gave a flat bonus to any skill check, 1/encounter or 1/day
- roll 2 dice, take best result
- take 10 under pressure 1/encounter or 1/day

and so on. The idea is that while a brainy guy may no better at jumping/climbing/thieving than someone else, his brains let him take advantage of situations in ways the other guy can't. This makes that while the non-brainy guy with more ranks would win in a straight-out competition under ideal conditions, the brainy guy does better when things get rough.

 

[WhatGravitas]

nd so on. The idea is that while a brainy guy may no better at jumping/climbing/thieving than someone else, his brains let him take advantage of situations in ways the other guy can't. This makes that while the non-brainy guy with more ranks would win in a straight-out competition under ideal conditions, the brainy guy does better when things get rough.

That's a pretty good and interesting idea, I like it, especially because skills are currently a mixture of learned and trained abilities, where higher Intelligence has no real relation with more skill points.

Example: A fighter 5 with Str 18, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 5 - has 8 skill points, i.e. one fully trained skill. A fighter 5 with Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 15 - i.e. five full trained skills. This means for the physical based skills: Fighter I has a modifier of +12 on one, and +4 on the rest. Fighter II has a +8 on five (assuming he's a human). Meaning, except for the one skill of fighter I, he surpasses fighter I in four physical skills, because he's brainier? Can organize his time better so he can do more exercises? Sure.

Nah, make Intelligence something more like intelligence, because skills are currently a hodgepodge of mental and physical training.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I don't see why Intelligence really has to be something specifically special when it comes to skills.

Why can't it be just another ability score to add onto a specific skill, and that is it for skills.

Intelligence then could be used for other things outside of skills, so it is not needed JUST for skills. Perhaps it can give bonuses to combat advantage or synergy attempts, perhaps give bonuses to specific conversation pieces.

Or as I hope will happen certain "skills" that aren't skills will use intelligence in some of their rolls. So for example, while Thievery may cover disabling traps it is not just the core skill modifiers that are used, for that specific thing intelligence is also used, while in another scenario say lockpicking dexterity is added again for it, etc.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

That's a pretty good and interesting idea, I like it, especially because skills are currently a mixture of learned and trained abilities, where higher Intelligence has no real relation with more skill points.

Example: A fighter 5 with Str 18, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 5 - has 8 skill points, i.e. one fully trained skill. A fighter 5 with Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 15 - i.e. five full trained skills. This means for the physical based skills: Fighter I has a modifier of +12 on one, and +4 on the rest. Fighter II has a +8 on five (assuming he's a human). Meaning, except for the one skill of fighter I, he surpasses fighter I in four physical skills, because he's brainier? Can organize his time better so he can do more exercises? Sure.

Nah, make Intelligence something more like intelligence, because skills are currently a hodgepodge of mental and physical training.

Cheers, LT.

I've contemplated this before too.
And at least in 3.X there's an easy solution.
Bonus skill points from Intelligence can only be spent on skills linked to it (search, disable device, knowledge, craft, speak language etc).

I doubt they're doing something similar in 4e.

I really hope there are no big dump stats though the way charisma has been.

 

[Xethreau]

This is what I find likely. And by dump stat, I mean that powers and skills do not generally use them.
Classes with INT dump stat (Y/N, "?" meaning not really sure) [Top 3 Skills, "?" meaning not sure at all]
Fighter (N?) [Str, Con, Int?]
Warlord (N) [Con, Cha, Int] (Confirmed in a blog somewhere)
Rogue (Y) [Dex, Str, Cha]
Ranger (Y) [Dex, Str, Wis]
Paladin (Y) [Str, Con, Wis]
Cleric (Y?) [Con, Wis, Cha]
Warlock (N) [Cha, Dex, Int]
Wizard (N) [Int, Wis, ?]

So generally, yes, it would be. But on the bright side, Constitution is now able to be a dump stat without totally screwing over a character, generaly speaking. If you think about it, any non- mentioned ability should be a viable dump stat, but obviously they all have consiquences; what is a rogue who cannot analyze a trap or figure out a puzzle?

Non-combat challenges, baby, will bring a dumb rogue down.

 

[small pumpkin man]

This is what I find likely. And by dump stat, I mean that powers and skills do not generally use them.
Classes with INT dump stat (Y/N, "?" meaning not really sure) [Top 3 Skills, "?" meaning not sure at all]
Fighter (N?) [Str, Con, Int?]
Warlord (N) [Con, Cha, Int] (Confirmed in a blog somewhere)
Rogue (Y) [Dex, Str, Cha]
Ranger (Y) [Dex, Str, Wis]
Paladin (Y) [Str, Con, Wis]
Cleric (Y?) [Con, Wis, Cha]
Warlock (N) [Cha, Dex, Int]
Wizard (N) [Int, Wis, ?]

So generally, yes, it would be. But on the bright side, Constitution is now able to be a dump stat without totally screwing over a character, generaly speaking. If you think about it, any non- mentioned ability should be a viable dump stat, but obviously they all have consiquences; what is a rogue who cannot analyze a trap or figure out a puzzle?

Non-combat challenges, baby, will bring a dumb rogue down.

Uh, why do you not have chr for Paladin? the Smites were all chr based and I'm fairly sure it's their primary stat. And the blog post which said Warlords gained things from int said Fighters really didn't. Also, since the Wizard wis thing was a feat, it's entirely possible that they aren't otherwise wisdoms based.

You're also ignoring primary/secondary, it looks like most classes will have stat which gives them bonuses to attack/damage, and other stats which ocasionaly give bonuses to damage or other bonuses. The rogue has two, and this may be normal, or it may be by "build", Fighters and Wizards seem to have three "builds" so they may have three secondary stats.