Breakdaddy
First Post
Saeviomagy said:
Yeah, that does seem to be quite a disparity of power levels. Very Everquestian, though.
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Is it cheating to start a PC above 1st level?
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Yeah, that does seem to be quite a disparity of power levels. Very Everquestian, though.
Brother MacLaren
Explorer
While I understand the need for creating higher-level characters to join an existing campaign, I don't like starting a new campaign with PCs above first level (but, in my opinion, a first-level fighter is still a Veteran). Part of the problem with starting PCs at higher levels is that their background typically does not include stupid rookie mistakes, and those are such a vital part of any D&D game. A good player might make up some humiliating experiences or mistakes in the background ("I chased the little thief into the ally and then I was ambushed by fifty Jermlaines who knocked me senseless and took my armor...").
A second issue is that the player has to work quite closely with the DM on the backstory. "No, you didn't encounter a rust monster previously, and you have no idea what they look like; no, you didn't kill one the Frost Duke's guards, and I can't tell you why." Related to this is the fact that, when starting a new campaign, the DM may not have enough of the world really fleshed out to give every character a detailed adventuring career as backstory, and may wish to have everything be as new for the PCs as it is for the players. Just something to be aware of.
The low-level experiences do shape the character a lot, and I do like them, so I think it's a shame when they have to be done away with... but sometimes it is necessary. Again, I do consider first-level characters to be accomplished, considered adults by the community, and finished with their apprenticeships.
A second issue is that the player has to work quite closely with the DM on the backstory. "No, you didn't encounter a rust monster previously, and you have no idea what they look like; no, you didn't kill one the Frost Duke's guards, and I can't tell you why." Related to this is the fact that, when starting a new campaign, the DM may not have enough of the world really fleshed out to give every character a detailed adventuring career as backstory, and may wish to have everything be as new for the PCs as it is for the players. Just something to be aware of.
The low-level experiences do shape the character a lot, and I do like them, so I think it's a shame when they have to be done away with... but sometimes it is necessary. Again, I do consider first-level characters to be accomplished, considered adults by the community, and finished with their apprenticeships.
Thanee
First Post
But what when a PC dies and cannot be raised. Starting at 1st seems kinda harsh then, no?Darklone said:
About the 3rd and 12th level PCs in one party, that will only work in a very roleplaying heavy campaign. In one, where the PCs abilities are used a lot, they surely wouldn't be able to contribute much.
Bye
Thanee
Henry
Autoexreginated
I can't call it cheating any more than I can call watching a TV series from the middle of the season onward as "cheating." Maybe you miss a few shows, but the only thing "hurt" by it is your sense of early development of the characters and plot. "Cheating" is not really a word I'd use for it, because D&D is not a traditional game.
Now, if you tried to use stats and powers as if you were higher level, without the DM's consent, that would be cheating.
So would lying about die rolls at the table; THAT's more like cheating.
Now, if you tried to use stats and powers as if you were higher level, without the DM's consent, that would be cheating.
So would lying about die rolls at the table; THAT's more like cheating.
Aries_Omega
Explorer
3rd Level
I usually start people off with 3 levels. That means if you are an ECL 2 character then you are LVL 1 in your class since your race has that more powerful then the average race. I reserve those races though for players that been gaming a bit. Newbies I show them the basics and hint at others. I do this for a few reasons though.
1.) Generally I actually meet very few people who haven't played the game. Usually players have played a few time AD&D or another game. A certain respect is given. They aren't newbies and have seen a great deal. I do bring in many new elements and ideas to a game and I have on a great many occasions made veteran players and players that are much more vetran then I (hey are those number tattooes? No....they are dice imprints) go "damn...that is cool" or more often "I never thought of that...this is so great".
2.) Two Words....Mortality Rate. I may have cut my teeth on 1E AD&D but I gained my trial by fire with Darksun 2E. It was around that time that I gained my current campaign from someone...long story...to give you the cliff notes version I gained what became my campaign upon the passing of the previous DM. Darksun really shaped my perception of a game. I now run my usual game which is more inline with a traditional setting but enviromental hazards still play a big part of it. Players do die from non-monster encounters....fact of life in my game.
3.) I like the LA/ECL +1 races. Face it...some are downright cool. I limit them...I don't want a party of Drizzt Do'Urden look-a-likes. Generally I keep with whatever racial mix is in the current area unless it's an unusual campaign.
IMHO it is not cheating if everyone is the same. New players come in, if they have gamed before I give them the party average. New players....thats hard. I may run a few solo adventures to get them up to speed and use to the system before having them join in. I may have them help me....run NPC's. It all depends on the person, the rest of the players and other factors.
Aries
I usually start people off with 3 levels. That means if you are an ECL 2 character then you are LVL 1 in your class since your race has that more powerful then the average race. I reserve those races though for players that been gaming a bit. Newbies I show them the basics and hint at others. I do this for a few reasons though.
1.) Generally I actually meet very few people who haven't played the game. Usually players have played a few time AD&D or another game. A certain respect is given. They aren't newbies and have seen a great deal. I do bring in many new elements and ideas to a game and I have on a great many occasions made veteran players and players that are much more vetran then I (hey are those number tattooes? No....they are dice imprints) go "damn...that is cool" or more often "I never thought of that...this is so great".
2.) Two Words....Mortality Rate. I may have cut my teeth on 1E AD&D but I gained my trial by fire with Darksun 2E. It was around that time that I gained my current campaign from someone...long story...to give you the cliff notes version I gained what became my campaign upon the passing of the previous DM. Darksun really shaped my perception of a game. I now run my usual game which is more inline with a traditional setting but enviromental hazards still play a big part of it. Players do die from non-monster encounters....fact of life in my game.
3.) I like the LA/ECL +1 races. Face it...some are downright cool. I limit them...I don't want a party of Drizzt Do'Urden look-a-likes. Generally I keep with whatever racial mix is in the current area unless it's an unusual campaign.
IMHO it is not cheating if everyone is the same. New players come in, if they have gamed before I give them the party average. New players....thats hard. I may run a few solo adventures to get them up to speed and use to the system before having them join in. I may have them help me....run NPC's. It all depends on the person, the rest of the players and other factors.
Aries
Particle_Man
Explorer
rushlight said:
See, such a new character could start at 1st level if she took a race that was (LA + monster HD) = 19, to make an ECL 20. It would be like an L.E. Modessitt Jr. character, the newbie who has the inborn power to dropkick mountains, if only he can get over his X-Men style angst.
Hey, Thanee agrees with me! Now if only I can convince him that 3.5 Psionics are not too powerful for D&D.
Particle_Man
Explorer
Hey, maybe we stumbled on the real reason that Jack Chick player couldn't handle losing the character Blackleaf.
JoeGKushner
First Post
This has a couple of factors.
In a long running campaign, it depends on what level the rest of the party is. If everyone is 15th level and someone gets soul drained or killed in some fashion where there is no coming back, starting off at first level is just plain stupid.
In a new starting campaign, the GM sets the stage and lets the players know. For example, some settings, like Oathbound, suggest 7th, while others, like Fading Suns, 3rd. This is done to insure survivability and get the party started into the other parts of the setting, not just survival.
Cheating? No. More satisfying as far as character concept and creation? Yes.
In a long running campaign, it depends on what level the rest of the party is. If everyone is 15th level and someone gets soul drained or killed in some fashion where there is no coming back, starting off at first level is just plain stupid.
In a new starting campaign, the GM sets the stage and lets the players know. For example, some settings, like Oathbound, suggest 7th, while others, like Fading Suns, 3rd. This is done to insure survivability and get the party started into the other parts of the setting, not just survival.
Cheating? No. More satisfying as far as character concept and creation? Yes.
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