Is it harder to be a DM in a high-level campaign?

[Fenes 2]

Ah, everyone has thier own way of going about doing things.

Try an adventure (a one shot maybe) where everyone has access to all of the stuff you omit and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised that its not as bad as you think it is.

As I said, I did that with 2E. Teleport, loads of magic items, raise dead etc, even psionics. The preparation time was murder, and I once saw another DM get his adventure literally solved in 2 minutes by the psionict using three powers - not a fun thing.

 

[Derulbaskul]

As I said, I did that with 2E. Teleport, loads of magic items, raise dead etc, even psionics. The preparation time was murder, and I once saw another DM get his adventure literally solved in 2 minutes by the psionict using three powers - not a fun thing.

Hehe... what I would give to have my players actually do this and wreck the campaign... just once. Once in 21 years i not asking too much, is it?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Yes.

You need lots of prep time. Designing high-level NPCs is difficult. Not all the fighters should have the same feats, not all spellcasters should have the same spells, items should be different, etc.

Once I create an NPC, I want to use them. However, it's unrealistic for the NPC to "just happen" to be where the players are or for them all to use Scry/Teleport to show up in the same town, etc.

Those new NPC tables in the DMG help - except the rogue and monk tables, which threaten to drive me up the wall. Don't those guys ever get Weapon Finesse? (I have to use an NPC generator for some multi-class combinations, and I will probably never find a 3.5 monk generator.)

It's possible to overcompensate and use an encounter that's too difficult - sometimes players don't have the appropriate resource, but they had an unexpected one for each previous encounter.

 

[Piratecat]

Certain spells in the game are "broken".... For example, I have removed all Detect Alignment magic. I have removed all Scrying. I have removed all Commune and Legend lore type spells. Teleport and all forms of Planar Travel magic require a will save or bad things happen. I have removed Wind Walk. I have changed invisibility so that you still get all the bonuses it provides but you look like a predator and you can be seen and targeted in combat. I have also removed all Raise Dead and Resurrection spells from the game.

Wow, I couldn't disagree more. These things aren't "broken" in my game, and the game (18th-21st lvl) still runs wonderfully. I love these spells, and my game is better for it.

 

[Lord Vangarel]

In a word yes.

I run a weekly game for 16th-18th level characters. Each session lasts approx 4 hours give or take other distractions.

I'd agree with other comments that you can't plan adventures in a linear path as the pc's can pretty much go where they decide so I have to give them a good enough reason to go where I want them to. What usually happens is several possibilities will be presented and I have an outline of what the antagonists are attempting to accomplish. I'll detail elements of the locations I want the party to go and if they do something unexpected then I'll wing it.

The biggest problem at higher levels is the 'game breaking' spells such as Wind Walk, Teleport, divinations etc. The current story arc involved the party travelling from a city southwards for two days during which I'd planned a couple of encounters. The party cleric cast Wind Walk and they bypassed those encounters. In another session I'd planned to jump the party as they left the city leaders, a teleport back to the party's rooms fixed that one. I awarded XP for these solutions because they avoided hazzards in play.

Another problem is the party dropping the big bad too quickly. In the last session the party was seeking an artifact hidden away in ancient times by a powerful race. To stop the artifact's discovery the ancients placed a powerful monster to prevent intruders. It lasted 1 round as an effective opponent. At the time I was pretty upset as this was supposed to be a tough encounter but having thought about it I am no longer that bothered. The party used their abilities which I underestimated. This will happen alot at higher levels and if it does make a note and award XP. I simply placed an even bigger bad guarding the artifact as a final guardian. The players are none the wiser and the big fight will still happen.

The longest job at higher levels is preparation. Designing suitable challenges is a nightmare in terms of the time required. The only advice I would offer would be to limit the supplements used. In my game I've been quite liberal with allowing supplements but it often means the power level of the party is 2-3 levels above a core party. To design an opponent capable of taking on the party I have to use all the supplements or they don't have the same advantages.

Sometimes I feel like jacking it in and starting from low levels again where everything can be controlled easier but I think the players would kill me. For possibly the first time ever they are getting really high level abilities and loving every minute. I would agree with the statement above that it becomes much more of a collaboration the higher you go with situations having to be looked at for balance and possibly adjusted.

As a final note I would say one other thing though . . .

High levels are fun!

 

[carpedavid]

I think it was Monte Cook that said "Embrace, not negate." in other words, design your adventures so that the characters *have* to use those "game breaking" spells to survive or reach their goals. Make them use scrying to find the key to the otherwise impenetrable Vault o' Doom. Make them use wind walk to get to the BBEG's lair in the nick of time. When losing XP by casting wish or miracle seems like the easy way out - then you're doing it right (although that may be an extreme example).

While that's a good idea at any level of play, it's extra-important at high levels, when those extremely powerful spells can have adventure-breaking effects on levels that would be a challenge for low-level parties. But then, that's the point of those high-level spells, isn't it?

I have to admit that the paradigm shift needed to transition to high level play can be difficult. Heck, I still find myself tempted to negate a character's power because I didn't think of its adventure-destroying effects, but I'm getting better. I think.

 

[diaglo]

with each level the role of the DM changes. that is why i find slower advancement better. both the players and the DM learn what works and what does not at each level. and have plenty of time to feel or test their ideas.

that said. it is all about having fun. if the players aren't having fun and the game fizzles you may want to pick up the pace. personally i didn't have that problem.

 

[Munin]

Psi,

I have to say I agree with you. (And please forgive me if I hijack the thread somewhat.)

Before I start any campaign, I always create a list of available spells from which to go by, as well as a general list of magic items.

Like you, I rarely affect combat spells, just divinations in the like. That said, I also rarely take away an ability or spell. I modify it to suit my own tastes as a DM.

I'll give you three examples from my current campaign:

1. Raise Dead
Raise Dead (and the druidic variant) are the only spells of the resurrection line that I allow.
Raise Dead does not automatically bring a character back to life. What it does do if force an audience with Lord Death.
Lord Death is usually quite reluctant to release one of his souls back to the world of the living, so he must be bargained with.
Usually, the player can 'buy' the soul by performing a deed for Lord Death in the world of the living, which he cannot otherwise affect.

2. Teleport
Teleport generally works as it does in the PHB with one important exception: a teleportation circle must be drawn on the ground on both the starting point and the destination.
The party can use it as a device to withdraw from a dungeon, given the wizard has enough time to draw the circle, but it cannot be used to sneak into the enemy stronghold (unless they are aware of his teleportation circle!).

3. Detect Evil
Detect Evilworks as it does in the PHB, what changes in my campaign is the definition of Evil.
Demons, devils, vampires...etc are true evil. So the barwench that is really a succubus would appear normally under the spell.
Humans, elves, dwarves and other creatures of free will are not necessarily true evil, but normally only have evil tendencies.
So the human barwench that just murdered her husband would not show under the spell.

These are just examples of ways to limit player power while still giving them a framework to use their abilities/spells.
My players are happy with this arrangement. YMMV.

 

[Blasphemonkey]

Those are some good ideas. Thanks, Munin! I think I'll be using the latter two in my campaign as well.

 

[Mark]

Doesn't it make preparation more difficult? What else changes when you get to the higher levels?

There's certainly more of which you need to keep track. The most important piece of advice I can give is not to hinge a plot or adventure on the group not having a given ability, spell or item...or worse, hinging a plot or story on negating the usefulness of an ability, spell or item they already have. It's all right if you do this to a small degree to make an encounter or two more challenging, but not the whole adventure.