Is it just me, or is it all a bit retro?

[DNH]

I find it extremely interesting that WotC output for 4e D&D is decidedly backward-looking, almost retro. Take a look at some of the titles we have seen over the last couple of years or so ...

• Revenge of the Giants
• Tomb of Horrors (both a direct 4e RPGA Reward rewrite and an expanded tale "super-adventure")
• Village of Hommlet (another RPGA Reward rewrite)
• Return to the Moathouse (an RPGA adventure from Slavicsek that took the characters back to Hommlet and in conflict with Lareth the Vile, no less)
• Dark Sun
• Ravenloft
• The "Red Box"
• Gamma World
• Deck of Many Things (from Madness at Gardmore Abbey) and, now I come to think of it, all the old artefacts
• Keep on the Borderlands

You could even throw in 'Desert of Desolation', which had a brief appearance as D&D Minis early on. Or even the revival of the Dragon and Dungeon magazines (sorry, Paizo), albeit in purely digital format (and even though they are effectively dead now).

I am sure there are others I have missed or can't think of just now. I am sure you guys will be able to point these out to me.

At first glance, it does seem a bit odd to be retreading old ground when you are clearly looking to draw in a new audience. Many aspects of the 4e game are clearly intended to make the whole hobby less opaque and esoteric for starting players, even more so as we go forward with Essentials, it seems. So why seemingly pander to the old guard? I am guessing that the people at WotC will have sat down and asked themselves "What brought *us* into D&D? What were the more memorable moments/stories/encounters/products of *our* early role-playing days?" And then they will have followed that with "Can we recreate that magic for a new generation of gamers?"

I think they have done so to varying degrees of success. Some of the items listed above are fantastic (tell me you didn't do a double-take on seeing the red box for the first time and I won't believe you!) and others are a bit meh (Giants).

But what I very much *would* like to see is a continuation of this trend. In fact, take it further. There is speculation elsewhere on these boards as to what to do next for a 4e campaign world and, assuming there *is* a next for 4e campaign worlds, I for one would very much like to see Mystara get the 4e treatment. Publish a series of Gazetteers for the Known World (and beyond) and many of us will be very happy indeed.

 

[Scribble]

I know at least Mike Mearls runs a 1e game in the office. There's been some speculation about whether or not that game is just for fun.

My thoughts are the current group is trying to take a step back from just looking at the rules, and looking at EVERYTHING that went into the old games that made them just fun.

 

[TerraDave]

given that the RPGA rewards version of ToH is possibly my favourite 4E product, I have some idea...

Probably the "official" reason is that D&D has an aging demographic. For 4E, many "new" players are those that play some other D&D, or lapsed players. There are gobs of them. And most truly new players will probably be brought into the hobby by an experienced, older, gamer.

But the real reason: Tomb of Horrors, Dark Sun, The (original) Red Box, Deck of Many Things...totally kick ass. Bring the Retro!

 

[wedgeski]

I know at least Mike Mearls runs a 1e game in the office. There's been some speculation about whether or not that game is just for fun.

My thoughts are the current group is trying to take a step back from just looking at the rules, and looking at EVERYTHING that went into the old games that made them just fun.

The current crop of D&D designers (Mearls most notably) are unashamed fans of D&D through all its incarnations, so it's not surprising they'd get excited about these classic properties. Plus they're valuable, recognised IP, and there are always dollar signs attached to such things; Wizards paid money for them, they're going to want to make them work. And finally it's a stated goal of some of the more recent products that Wizards is trying to attract lapsed gamers.

I don't think any of these goals are incompatible with the idea of attracting new gamers as well. Essentials appears to be trying to do both things at once, and a few small problems aside, has by all accounts succeeded.

 

[Dungeoneer]

It's a bit odd that so much of the new content for 4e is actually based on old stuff. I mean, I realize that's a double-win for them. Updates of old content please old fans and new fans have never seen it before so it's new to them. But I think there's a lot of new space to explore as well.

 

[Weregrognard]

IMO, they're not doing this enough! I don't know how well the "Expedition to..." books for 3.5 sold, but I want more of them. Is that so wrong?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

It's a bit odd that so much of the new content for 4e is actually based on old stuff. I mean, I realize that's a double-win for them. Updates of old content please old fans and new fans have never seen it before so it's new to them. But I think there's a lot of new space to explore as well.

I'm an older gamer as well, and loved all this stuff the first time around, but all of these classics were created because previous creators DIDN'T just spend their time in nostalgia. Instead of giving us Return to the Temple of the Frog, we got classic adventures like Keep on the Borderlands and Tomb of Horrors. Instead of Beyond Blackmoor, we got Ravenloft and the Forgotten Realms.

Nostalgia can be fun, but it shouldn't be the backbone of an entire new edition. There are plenty of good ideas out there. WotC should be trying to give us new classics in addition to the shout-outs to the classics of old.

 

[Incenjucar]

As with comic books, the classics are what get people to become designers in the first place, and they tend to have a guaranteed audience, while new things are larger gambles and may not be interesting to the designers. Keep in mind how many people freak out when ANYTHING changes in ANY way, or who have no greater desire than for the oldest settings to come back whether or not they have a chance on the market with today's audience.

That said, this edition is not lacking in fresh ideas. The D&D planar structure has changed tremendously, along with many monsters, the living and dead have been defined as never before (body, animus, soul), new races have become staples, the primal power source has come into its own (shadow is debatable), FR has been changed more drastically than ever, and Dark Sun has been reformed and refined.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

So you're predicting a Return to the Animus for 5E?

 

[Squire James]

Ever wonder why every video game release nowadays either ends with a number, an "Old Successful Title : The Real Title of This Game" naming model, or both? A lot of similarity here, I think.