Is it just me?

[bento]

I think what you're seeing is a backlash against change for change sake. We're at a point with the game that you either like it or you don't, and adding anything new gets dimished returns.

I'd suspect the majority of players like to master a set of rules, and then play that game until they don't enjoy it anymore. This can take months, years or in the cases of some people on this board, decades.

The minority of players are just the opposite - they don't care about mastery, but exploration of new ideas. These are the players that are attracted to games that last a couple of months, and aren't afraid to try new games.

ENWorld cleaves more to the first type (mastery) while a board like RPGNet cleaves to the second type (variation).

If you don't like what you're hearing on ENWorld and think people are being close minded, I'd suggest visiting RPGNet.

 

[Shieldhaven]

I'm starting to wonder if this should be merged with the Meta-Troll thread.

And without tone of voice, it's impossible to know whether or not bento is snarking RPG.net. Well played. =)

...no, I have nothing of substance to contribute... why?

Haven

 

[RFisher]

I'm talking about the singular phenomenon whereby whenever anybody creates anything new for a game or throws out an idea at least one person has to smother it or die in the attempt.

I hate web forums. We had technology that was very good at discussion groups, & we jettisoned it for this? Well, things have come a long way, but I still think it was the wrong path.

I posted an idea to rec.games.frp.dnd one day to vet it for problems & get ideas on how to improve it. Instead, people not only pointed out problems with it, but felt they needed to belittle it as the stupidest idea they'd ever read. I don't think there was a single comment that was intended to help me improve the idea rather than to just tell me how stupid I was for even mentioning it.

Usenet died for me that day.

For all the problems there may be with ENWorld, RPG.net, DF, &c.: It's not anywhere near as bad as it could be.

 

[Korgoth]

I think what you're seeing is a backlash against change for change sake. We're at a point with the game that you either like it or you don't, and adding anything new gets dimished returns.

I'd suspect the majority of players like to master a set of rules, and then play that game until they don't enjoy it anymore. This can take months, years or in the cases of some people on this board, decades.

O tempora! O mores!

[grumpy old man voice]
In my day, you didn't master any rules. We didn't have feats and skills and templates. We made a Fighter and rolled a 1d8 for hit points and we liked it!
[/grumpy old man voice]

Seriously, I think "mastering the rules" is part of the problem. The rules should be simple. Mastering the game, however, should be very challenging. But that can be true no matter what (reasonable) house rules or new classes or whatever are in place.

The rules should just be a vehicle to facilitate creativity and enjoyable play. They're not an end in themselves.

 

[rgard]

Ah, but modern reconstructions show the apatosaurus (as well as diplodocus and seismosaurus) with a flat back and a horizontal neck and tail.

Isn't this argument now prooving Henry's original answer?

No, everybody who posted here is wrong and should crawl in a hole and meditate until they can agree with me.


Rich

 

[rgard]

I hate web forums. We had technology that was very good at discussion groups, & we jettisoned it for this? Well, things have come a long way, but I still think it was the wrong path.

I posted an idea to rec.games.frp.dnd one day to vet it for problems & get ideas on how to improve it. Instead, people not only pointed out problems with it, but felt they needed to belittle it as the stupidest idea they'd ever read. I don't think there was a single comment that was intended to help me improve the idea rather than to just tell me how stupid I was for even mentioning it.

Usenet died for me that day.

For all the problems there may be with ENWorld, RPG.net, DF, &c.: It's not anywhere near as bad as it could be.

Same here for usenet. The rec.games.frp.dnd crowd are horrid. Of course not one of them would have the courage to say in person what they type anonymously on the usenet.

This place is fun. That's mostly due to the moderation of any first glimpse of anti-social behavior.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[werk]

It's human nature and simple laziness. It's much easier to criticize than create.

A good tip for a critical person is to make a suggestion following every criticism, that makes it constructive, rather than just compaining. If you are unable to come up with a suggestion, reevaluate if the criticism is genuine or just a hypothetical inconvenience.

I find that (IRL) rambling critics are also people that 'wait to talk' rather than listening.

 

[Galethorn]

It's human nature and simple laziness. It's much easier to criticize than create.

A good tip for a critical person is to make a suggestion following every criticism, that makes it constructive, rather than just compaining. If you are unable to come up with a suggestion, reevaluate if the criticism is genuine or just a hypothetical inconvenience.

I find that (IRL) rambling critics are also people that 'wait to talk' rather than listening.

[irony style=facetious]
<Waits patiently for Werk to finish>
I think that your hypothetical causal relationship between laziness and non-constructive criticism is inherently lazy, and you're crazy for suggesting it!

Errr, ahem, <cough>
[/irony]

But, in all seriousness, I agree. This seems to be a problem throughout the 'net, and maybe even in western (or at least US) culture as a whole. It could be argued that this is part of a more general trend...

One thing I've noticed (and others have written entire careers worth of sociology papers on) is the ever increasing tendency for the agenda in a given field to be set by the noisy minority. In the case of RPGs and the internet, this trend is amplified by the inherent anonymity you get with the internet. People aren't as likely to pause and rethink before saying hurtful things because they know they're not going to get any teeth knocked out for saying them. On the one hand, it allows a more free exchange of ideas, but civility is thrown out the window.

I think another part of this trend towards non-constructive criticism is a desire to impress others and display a dominant role in one's society (in this case, a forum). This goes back into the laziness problem; it's a hell of a lot easier to show off your forum muscles by eloquently ridiculing an idea than it is to actually contribute something to the discussion. I think this is one of the reasons ENWorld is such a...healthy forum; a lot of the 'big fish' here have gotten that way by posting Story Hours and art, and otherwise contributing to the Body of Knowledge®.

 

[blargney the second]

Is it just me or is there a mile-wide streak of anti-creative sentiment running through the RPG community lately?

How could you think such a thing? That hypothesis is totally b0rken. No wonder, since it's in the twinkERWorld.


(In other words: Yes. I think you're correct.)
-blarg

 

[werk]

I think another part of this trend towards non-constructive criticism is a desire to impress others and display a dominant role in one's society (in this case, a forum). This goes back into the laziness problem; it's a hell of a lot easier to show off your forum muscles by eloquently ridiculing an idea than it is to actually contribute something to the discussion. I think this is one of the reasons ENWorld is such a...healthy forum; a lot of the 'big fish' here have gotten that way by posting Story Hours and art, and otherwise contributing to the Body of Knowledge®.

I totally agree with this as well, more and more people seem to believe in success from others' failure...if I make you look bad, I look good in comparison. Definitely people like that here at work.