Is it just me?
- Thread starter Ipissimus
- Start date
Ok, my last post came out a bit 'whinging old codger', so I blame me being tired this morning for that, though i did make one or two points.
On the bet, no, that's the first time I've ever done that. But I won't enforce it, we were only messing about.
Well, ok, you've got all the monster manuals and expantions... I'll ignore MM4 here since it's full of, frankly, space-wasters like drow with character levels... I'll also ignore the way the later monster manuals are more based around the Miniture game, which will always be mired by the silly randomized packs. But the biggest problem is: your players know those monsters already.
I face this problem all the time. Me: It looks like a gooy black blob. Player: Oh, that's the Carbronian Nargleflertz, it's vulnerable to chocolate sprinkles. Player 2: I've got some of those in my backpack! I throw my choco sprinkle grenade at the monster! Me: Ok, it's dead... Seriously, how can players explore the unknown when they know every monster back to front? And I truely do mock the idea of creating a new appearance for the same monster, a big centipede thing with eyes is not going to have the same stats as a beholder. That's just cheap.
Those of you who remember the old Fiend Folio, remember how it was a tome of player-created monster submissions? Remember how cool the Githyanki were? The Sons of Kyuss now have a whole campaign arc! That's what I feel is being lost, those little gems. All WOTC are doing is re-hashing all the old conventions, which is all official DnD has ever done since way back with TSR, it's often up to the players to create brand new material. Sure, sometimes you'll create the Flumph (I love Flumphs, btw) but maybe, just maybe, you'll create the next Githyanki.
And where are all the adventures? Why isn't everyone self-publishing print-friendly B&W e-book adventures? The OGL has to be good for something! Even 2 bucks a pop is better than a poke in the eye with a pointy stick. Hardly anyone's doing it, though! Everyone used to dream about publishing their adventures to a wider audience!
Oh, and the book was 'Bastards and Bloodlines' (awesome, awesome, book) and the feat was the one that allows you to switch ability scores for spellcasting purposes. Our aspiring Arcane Trickster wants to synergize his Sorcerer levels with Int, since he's a skill monkey enhancement-spell type (True Strike sneak attacks... grooooooan).
On the bet, no, that's the first time I've ever done that. But I won't enforce it, we were only messing about.
Well, ok, you've got all the monster manuals and expantions... I'll ignore MM4 here since it's full of, frankly, space-wasters like drow with character levels... I'll also ignore the way the later monster manuals are more based around the Miniture game, which will always be mired by the silly randomized packs. But the biggest problem is: your players know those monsters already.
I face this problem all the time. Me: It looks like a gooy black blob. Player: Oh, that's the Carbronian Nargleflertz, it's vulnerable to chocolate sprinkles. Player 2: I've got some of those in my backpack! I throw my choco sprinkle grenade at the monster! Me: Ok, it's dead... Seriously, how can players explore the unknown when they know every monster back to front? And I truely do mock the idea of creating a new appearance for the same monster, a big centipede thing with eyes is not going to have the same stats as a beholder. That's just cheap.
Those of you who remember the old Fiend Folio, remember how it was a tome of player-created monster submissions? Remember how cool the Githyanki were? The Sons of Kyuss now have a whole campaign arc! That's what I feel is being lost, those little gems. All WOTC are doing is re-hashing all the old conventions, which is all official DnD has ever done since way back with TSR, it's often up to the players to create brand new material. Sure, sometimes you'll create the Flumph (I love Flumphs, btw) but maybe, just maybe, you'll create the next Githyanki.
And where are all the adventures? Why isn't everyone self-publishing print-friendly B&W e-book adventures? The OGL has to be good for something! Even 2 bucks a pop is better than a poke in the eye with a pointy stick. Hardly anyone's doing it, though! Everyone used to dream about publishing their adventures to a wider audience!
Oh, and the book was 'Bastards and Bloodlines' (awesome, awesome, book) and the feat was the one that allows you to switch ability scores for spellcasting purposes. Our aspiring Arcane Trickster wants to synergize his Sorcerer levels with Int, since he's a skill monkey enhancement-spell type (True Strike sneak attacks... grooooooan).
jmucchiello
Hero
The 80s, you mean when you were perhaps in high school and had scads of free time? As opposed to today, where you are married and have 1-3 kids, 1-2 jobs, a mortgage and for some reason can't spend an hour putting a new monster together? The good old days were good because you had time to do stuff. I miss those days too. Why else would I be posting at 2:15 in the morning? (Dang, I better get to sleep.)Ipissimus said:
Ah, no actually. Missed on all except the job count. And it wasn't all high school students contributing. Heck, I DM for guys twice my age who used to create their own spells and such. And yes, I still do create custom stuff for my game.
What I'm noticing isn't a problem with my own life, it's a general attitude that I'm finding all over the place, no matter where I go. Maybe at some point, we all got a little too obsessed with the rules and the myth of game balance and forgot about the fun, maybe not. It's the only thing I can think of, however, that could explain the predjudice I find against new RPG material.
What I'm noticing isn't a problem with my own life, it's a general attitude that I'm finding all over the place, no matter where I go. Maybe at some point, we all got a little too obsessed with the rules and the myth of game balance and forgot about the fun, maybe not. It's the only thing I can think of, however, that could explain the predjudice I find against new RPG material.
shilsen
Adventurer
Ipissimus said:
This seems to be a problem with your players rather than the game. If they can't separate character knowledge and player knowledge, then you have bigger issues than a perceived resistance to creativity in RPGs nowadays. Explain to your players that they need to keep IC and OOC knowledge separate and/or find some new players.
No player can know every monster back to front. With the idea of class levels, advancing by HD and templates in 3e, even knowing the base monster in a particular book does very little for telling you what the particular version you're facing is. Of course, you may not be applying any of the things I mentioned.
It's ironic that you choose to "mock the idea" of someone taking a creative spin on an old and much-used creature in a thread where you're complaining about people being unreceptive to creativity. Mechanics are just ... well, mechanics. It's the flavor that makes the creature. An anaconda, an ochre jelly, a dire bear and an otyugh all have the mechanics of improved grab, but they vary drastically in flavor. You should check out a couple of the threads where people on these forums have made very creative use of the same mechanics for different creatures before you write off their creativity as "cheap."
Kae'Yoss said:
Besides being careful about what you say online, you also have to be careful with how you read. Assume good faith. Assume smileys were unintentionally left out. If you think something is hostile, read it again trying to see it otherwise. If that doesn't work, ignore it. It's amazing how much more friendly online communications can be when you actively choose to view it that way.
Ipissimus said:
At my table, we're still as open-minded as ever. Although we formed when 3e came out, we've play lots of systems. Many of them don't have the kind of support 3e does or even the comprehensiveness of the 3e core, so plenty of stuff gets created by us. (Even when playing 3e, I'd say we create a lot ourselves.)
Although, we did have a player visit once who wasn't a good fit because--I hate to say he was "close-minded". He just didn't want a group as eclectic as we are.
Slife
First Post
Ipissimus said:
Well... duh. Beholders can fly. Centipedes can't.
What about an eagle, gigantic in size, with wings made from what appears to be crystal, gleaming with prismatic displays of multicoloured light? Hmm?
(And I must say, it is incredibly ironic that you mock the entire concept of creating new flavor text for preexisting stat blocks, while simultaneously decrying the anti-creative sentiment you percieve.)
And do you enforce the characters putting ranks into knowledge(dungeoneering) and knowledge(nature), in order to know what the creature is and what its weaknesses are?
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