Is it time to put the "A" back before D&D?

[Kestrel]

I agree with you wholeheartedly about the situation with D&D now. I noticed the shift in focus from when Races of Destiny was released and onward. I used to buy EVERY WotC book (well the general and FR books that is) and it's been getting so bad now that I am refusing to buy 2 books, Mysteries of the Moonsea and Monster Manual 4.

The shift in focus is leaning more and more towards "We'll do the work and imagination for you, we'll make EVERYTHING much much easier for you, and we'll fill our books with tons of inspiration and take away the tools...because you won't need the tools since we'll do the building for you, but you'll still have to apply it".

Originally it was "Here are the tools, if you want these tools to work with then buy our book, if you don't then don't buy it, we have a different set coming next month."

It's quite sad, I hope this is only a one year thing with them, like they're testing the waters with something. Wrong year to do it, though.

Now me, and people like me, are feeling alienated with the new focus. I think an AD&D 3E would be better, so people such as myself and others, and even the veterans (cause I side mostly with them) can have their game and the newbs theirs.

When I was a kid and just beginning to play DnD, I was confused by the seperate books. Maybe I was a dumb kid, but I was only 12 and trying to understand this new and very complex game.

Looks like the new shift in books is geared towards pulling in new blood instead of trying to cater to old hats. If WotC provides a lot of "how to" information in thier books, like how to plan a game, how to write a scenario, ideas on how to create a 3 dimensional character, then they work to educate new players, always a good thing for a business that wants to grow.

Old gamers are really a captive audience, and honestly really hard to please. If they make all their new books as "more rules! even more complex!" then they just alienate any new players, who feel totally overwhelmed and never buy the product.

While it may not cater to me as an old time gamer...I can definitely see it as a better business strategy for them.

 

[Zaruthustran]

Bring Back Basic

I think there's a need to bring back the B in D&D.

A beginner's set would be very helpful in addressing D&D's most urgent need: attracting new players. It should use the rules of regular ol' 3.5 but limit the number of options.

Meaning: decreased skill lists, limited feat selection (no item creation beyond Scribe Scroll and Brew Potion), limited class selection, limited combat options (no bull rush, overrun, grapple, TWF).

The idea is to cut out confusing rules, as opposed to rewriting rules or creating new rules. This way, when the player moves on to regular D&D they don't have to re-learn anything. They just get to take advantage of new options.

I also think there should be "game in a box" products. Simple rules, characters provided, adventure with all handouts and encounters appropriate to the level of the characters, dice and minis. Expansions would have just minis and adventures. Sell them into "traditional" toy stores (WalMart, ToysRus, etc.) and online. Market to new players and to experienced players (as great items for gift-giving to potential gamers).

-z

 

[Maggan]

I think there's a need to bring back the B in D&D.

A beginner's set would be very helpful in addressing D&D's most urgent need: attracting new players. It should use the rules of regular ol' 3.5 but limit the number of options.

Meaning: decreased skill lists, limited feat selection (no item creation beyond Scribe Scroll and Brew Potion), limited class selection, limited combat options (no bull rush, overrun, grapple, TWF).

The idea is to cut out confusing rules, as opposed to rewriting rules or creating new rules. This way, when the player moves on to regular D&D they don't have to re-learn anything. They just get to take advantage of new options.

I also think there should be "game in a box" products. Simple rules, characters provided, adventure with all handouts and encounters appropriate to the level of the characters, dice and minis. Expansions would have just minis and adventures. Sell them into "traditional" toy stores (WalMart, ToysRus, etc.) and online. Market to new players and to experienced players (as great items for gift-giving to potential gamers).

-z

As always, I'm baffled by this request.

There is a D&D Basic Game on the market right now, that includes most of the things you wish for. It is marketed at new players, and seems to be doing well, since WotC is bringing out an updated version sometime this fall.

It seems WotC could create a Basic D&D Game, inscribe the logo on the moon, run TV ads 24/7, buy a country and rename it "Basic D&D Game", open a D&D Basic Game theme park (hey, not a bad idea, actually), personally deliver a box to every gamer in the world ...

... and people still wouldn't know it existed.

/M

 

[mcrow]

I would argue that this has already happened.

Those that still have the time, patience, and money to mess with 3.X are still doing so.

Those that need “more for less” have already moved on to C&C, True20, and other lite systems.

So I guess what I’m saying is that it’s too late for WoTC to jump on that wagon. And maybe that’s best for everyone?

That is my thought.

There are already games out there that are like d20 lite for beginers then there is D&D in the middle and then there are games like Spycraft that are more crunchy.

No point in WoTC to try it.

 

[Zaruthustran]

As always, I'm baffled by this request.

There is a D&D Basic Game on the market right now, that includes most of the things you wish for. It is marketed at new players, and seems to be doing well, since WotC is bringing out an updated version sometime this fall.

It seems WotC could create a Basic D&D Game, inscribe the logo on the moon, run TV ads 24/7, buy a country and rename it "Basic D&D Game", open a D&D Basic Game theme park (hey, not a bad idea, actually), personally deliver a box to every gamer in the world ...

... and people still wouldn't know it existed.

/M

I'm aware it exists (I bought it for my nephews), but it was released in 2004, uses 3.0 rules, and hasn't been supported since.

After the user goes through the first adventure, what are they to do? Immediately graduate to the full game (effectively wasting the $20 investment in the basic rule set)?

-z

 

[Maggan]

I'm aware it exists (I bought it for my nephews), but it was released in 2004, uses 3.0 rules, and hasn't been supported since.

After the user goes through the first adventure, what are they to do? Immediately graduate to the full game (effectively wasting the $20 investment in the basic rule set)?

-z

It uses the 3.0 rules? I always figured it used 3.5, since there is an ad for the 3.5 PH in the advanced rulebook, and they have a picture of the 3.5 MM in the monster section. Also the rules for facing and miniatures and all that seems very 3.5 to me.

What rules are specifically 3.0? I couldn't find any, but then again my grasp of the rules is limited.

As for what use they get out of the box when they move on to the full game, if nothing else then the dice, the miniatures and the floorplans.

EDIT: It actually says on the credits page that it's 3.5.

/M

 

[Jdvn1]

I think there's a need to bring back the B in D&D.

What's wrong with the current Basic box set? The 3.5 one?

I think you might be confused.

There is a 3.0 one, in an orange-ish box, and a 3.5 one in a larger, black-ish box.

As far as further support, there's then the Player's Kit, which is the step-up.