Is killing a Goblin who begs for mercy evil?

[CleverNickName]

At my table, paladins show mercy not because they are lawful or good, but because they are paladins. Their faith and devotion to higher powers, their sacred Oaths, are far more important than just the alignment axis. Their belief in the powers of mercy and redemption, and their desire to redeem all who would ask for it, are what separate Paladins from "fighters who go to church."

 

[GreyLord]

It's a long question from long ago, but has basically been answered by Paizo and others I believe. In the pathfinder universe (golarion and starfinder for the most part) killing a goblin which was begging for mercy is an evil act.

Goblins are not necessarily murder machines in Pathfinder.

ON the otherhand, it is the GM's game to decide upon rule interpretations and they are the final word on the matter at the table, especially (or doubly so) if in their own homebrew world.

 

[Dausuul]

The nice thing about zombie threads, like all zombies, is they never beg for mercy in the first place.

As for the OP, I'm inclined to answer with a big fat "It depends." Assuming this is not the middle of a battle, the paladin should at least hear the goblin out. If it is feasible to take the goblin prisoner and give it a chance to redeem itself, the paladin should do so. On the other hand, Lawful Good does not mean Lawful Stupid; the goblin does not get a free pass to run away and plot an ambush because it grovels a bit. And if the goblin does not in fact redeem itself while prisoner, it may end up facing execution for its crimes...

...assuming it committed any. Much depends on why the party was fighting the goblins to begin with. If the goblins were raiding and killing innocent people, that's one thing. If the PCs are on a quest and the goblins attack them, well, they may have started the fight, but you're intruding on their territory. You should be looking for an opportunity to make peace.

And if the PCs just saw some goblins minding their own business and carved into them, it doesn't matter what you do with the survivor of the massacre; the paladin fell from grace at the first blow.

 

[wicked cool]

The real question is goblins attacked the village and killed some villagers. The paladin and the party comes in saves the village. The last goblin flees saying I surrender and wont do it again. As its leaving the paladin pulls out her/his bow and shoots the goblin in the back.

the DM says that's an evil act and strips the paladin of holy powers.

I'll speak for myself-I'm leaving the table. Organized play I politely excuse myself and check out.

this is a game of killing monsters and getting treasure.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Read supulchrave’s story hour (on this board) which starts off with a high level Paladin showing mercy to a succubus who tried to seduce and corrupt him. After she begs for mercy and promises to ‘change’. Can fiends be remorseful ? Is it possible?

read it. It’s amazing.

 

[Filthy Lucre]

The real question is goblins attacked the village and killed some villagers. The paladin and the party comes in saves the village. The last goblin flees saying I surrender and wont do it again. As its leaving the paladin pulls out her/his bow and shoots the goblin in the back.

the DM says that's an evil act and strips the paladin of holy powers.

I'll speak for myself-I'm leaving the table. Organized play I politely excuse myself and check out.

this is a game of killing monsters and getting treasure.

I would love to know what counts as an evil act to you, if not lying about showing mercy and then killing an unarmed/non-hostile creature.

The rules text for paladins clearly intends for there to be actions that paladins can't perform and that alignment is more than window dressing for them. So are you saying you don't agree with that rule? Or are you honestly going to try and make an affirmative case for the morality of out-and-out murder? Your last sentence is very much in the vein of the 'sword and sorcery' genre... but paladins as such are not in that genre.

The scene you describe is like... the classic "this character is a villain, not a hero" trope that you see in media.

 

[wicked cool]

I didn’t say the paladin lied or said anything

my scenario is the goblins attacked and the line goblin says I’m sure ending and runs away

I argue the paladin can kill it at that point without losing powers. I’m treating the goblin like a wolf that runs away. To be clear the paladin has said nothing

 

[Filthy Lucre]

I didn’t say the paladin lied or said anything

my scenario is the goblins attacked and the line goblin says I’m sure ending and runs away

I argue the paladin can kill it at that point without losing powers. I’m treating the goblin like a wolf that runs away. To be clear the paladin has said nothing

K, that's fine, except that your scenario explicitly contradicts the rules-as-written. Because goblins are not wolves - they're as close to humans as elves are.

So, replace "goblin" with "elf" - an elf surrenders and promises to never raid a village again and then when he leaves you shoot him in the back. Good or evil?

You can run your own personal game however you want - but this discussion was never about peoples home games but rather what the RAW supports. So your comment that you would walk out of game that people ran by the rules as explicitly defined in the core rule book comes off more than a little petulant.

 

[wicked cool]

according to D&D beyond a goblin is a neutral evil creature and is far different from an elf while I believe a wolf is unaligned

so are we saying in D&D league play that if the goblins run away then the paladin cant give chase and kill them. The paladin know they will most likely come back . Not seeing this as a violation of their oath

I don't see that the paladin has to lose their powers. Are we saying that Moradin would take a dwarves powers away if they did this to a drow in the underdark

 

[Filthy Lucre]

according to D&D beyond a goblin is a neutral evil creature and is far different from an elf while I believe a wolf is unaligned

so are we saying in D&D league play that if the goblins run away then the paladin cant give chase and kill them. The paladin know they will most likely come back . Not seeing this as a violation of their oath

I don't see that the paladin has to lose their powers. Are we saying that Moradin would take a dwarves powers away if they did this to a drow in the underdark

You're in the Pathfinder/Starfinder forum, sport, not the D&D forum. So... none of that matters.

But, just for the record, Moradin would absolutely punish a paladin for killing a surrendered/helpless enemy. The price of being good is that you have to take unnecessary risks - otherwise you're just neutral/amoral. There is no good god in the D&D pantheon that would consider killing a helpless/surrendered creature, who has free will and is capable of being redeemed, a non-evil act.

So the answer is: In Adventure League play you can be absolutely sure that the scenario you describe is an evil act, as per even D&D's moral/alignment system.

Like I said, you run your game however you want, but your elementary-school level of morality is not supported by either PF2e or D&D 5e. Both of those systems allow PCs to be goblins and it doesn't force them to be NE. So the claim that "all goblins are evil" is demonstrably/completely false.