IS metacreative "shaper" fabricate powerfull?

[ZR]

In my campain we have not introduced psionics yet. I wanted to bring in a psion char who represented something different to the choices offered with magic.

I think a "shaper" could be very interesting but this would greatly depend on how some of the rules are taken (for your reference it will be a 14th level shaper in the game).

Some points that I would like comments on:

FABRICATE:
I can see this as possibley a very powerful power

1/ I see "fabricate" possibly offering an ability like that used by "magnus" in X-men but this depends on how the appearance of 1cubic yard/level is played. For example could a fabricated ladder be made to grow up from the ground lifting the char?

2/ What about building a wall arround someone? a cage?
encase a person in a cocoon with stone etc etc..

3/ causing a 1cubic yard bolder per round to fabricate form the roof above someone. If metal a giant blade.

FABRICATE + VERY HIGH CRAFT SCORES
This brings up lots of possibilities

4/ OK so I have a craft skill in weaponsmith >20 so I can make composit longbows +4 st easily. Can I make masterwork with fabricate?

5/ Can I make only 1 item with the spell? If you can make more than 1 a singular psion could almost equip an army.

6/ giving your construct VII a giant masterwork weapon would be nasty

7/ Is not a shapper going to be very rich? If a 14th level char can produce 140 cubic yards with greater fabricate they can actualy build a large ship. I think a high level shaper with a variety of crafts is a 1 man merchant quild.


ASTRAL CONSTRUCT + VERY HIGH CRAFT SCORES

8/ this is cool
9/ with persistant power I think a psion would have no need to hire any guards.
10/ Any IDEAS??

ECTO PUPPET
11/ this is a crazy power for 2nd level. Do you attack with the constructs scores?
12/ can you use the constructs psionic abilities?

I WOULD APPRECIATE ANY IDEAS!!!

 

[Camarath]

1/ DM's call
2/ also DM's call
3/ Yes if it was within close range.
4/ I think so.
5/ I think you can make as many items per round per manifestation as the volume allows (you could add to the DC for crafting more than one item per round). If you want you could always rule only one craft check per manifestation.
6/ I don't think it is proficient with weapons and I don't know if they can even use them.
7/ Probly if he took time out from adventuring
8/ I don't see how Craft Scores affect Astral Construct
9/ the power point cost would be high and you can only manifest power that cost a total of one less than you manifester lv (so a 14 lv shaper could persistant power Astral Construct 3) and Guards only cost gold
10/ Take trigger power Astral Construct 1 with a high boosted Int you can make these little guys all day. They can be very useful.
11/ I think the power fuctions by allowing you to give up your actions in concentration so you can preform actions with the construct. You control the construct.
12/ Yes I think so but on and from the construct only.

Metacreative Powers you might want to take
Ectoplasmic Cocoon
Create Food and Water
Wall of Ectoplasm
Ectoplasmic Armor
Incarnate
Flaming Shroud
in addition to Astral Construct at several lvs and Fabricate and perhaps Improved Fabricate

Oh and Disguise is a class skill.

 

[Camarath]

Also check out Mind's Eye on WoTC's site.

 

[ZR]

craft (sculpture) is mentioned as needed to create good customized constructs. Not sure how fur you could take this but could be realy cool.

I think trigger ectopuppet would be good. may be even persistant power as then I could use the construct to fly or carry me when the need arrises.

Thanks for the ideas.

Shame about the persistant VII being a no go.

On the idea of a master craftsman I chose the following. Some were chosen to allow investigation of thieves/competitors. Needed a couple of defensive powers.

Why incarnate?

++++++++++++++++
Race Blue Goblin
Note I cant use ST or CHAR powers
Str 7
Dex 15
Con 16
Int 22
Wis 17
Cha 7


Skate
Spider Climb
Astral Construct 1
Grease
Expanded Vision
2nd level
Invisibility
Ecto Puppet
Ectoplasmic Cocoon
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
3rd level
Fly
Time Hop
Whitefire
Remote Viewing
4th level
Inertial Barrier
Astral Construct 4
Fabricate
5th level
Teleport
Ectoplasmic Shambler
True Seeing
6th level
Flaming Shroud
Improved Fabricate
7th level
Astral Construct 7

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

FABRICATE:
I can see this as possibley a very powerful power

1/ I see "fabricate" possibly offering an ability like that used by "magnus" in X-men but this depends on how the appearance of 1cubic yard/level is played. For example could a fabricated ladder be made to grow up from the ground lifting the char?

It's easier to just climb the ladder

2/ What about building a wall arround someone? a cage?
encase a person in a cocoon with stone etc etc..

There's still a long manifestation time - I'd give the person a Reflex save (as if avoiding Otiluke's Resilient Sphere).

3/ causing a 1cubic yard bolder per round to fabricate form the roof above someone. If metal a giant blade.

I don't know how much such a boulder would weigh, but it wouldn't do that much damage for your power points. Of course, it ignores power resistance.

FABRICATE + VERY HIGH CRAFT SCORES
This brings up lots of possibilities

4/ OK so I have a craft skill in weaponsmith >20 so I can make composit longbows +4 st easily. Can I make masterwork with fabricate?

Yup.

5/ Can I make only 1 item with the spell? If you can make more than 1 a singular psion could almost equip an army.

You can make more than one.

6/ giving your construct VII a giant masterwork weapon would be nasty

It isn't proficient.

7/ Is not a shapper going to be very rich? If a 14th level char can produce 140 cubic yards with greater fabricate they can actualy build a large ship. I think a high level shaper with a variety of crafts is a 1 man merchant quild.

Tee hee.

ASTRAL CONSTRUCT + VERY HIGH CRAFT SCORES

8/ this is cool

Yup.

9/ with persistant power I think a psion would have no need to hire any guards.

Absolutely not! This isn't a legal combo. Astral constructs do not have a range or personal or a fixed range. There is no official way to do this, but spending XP seems appropriate (if you use the 8th-level power stabilize construct from If Thoughts Could Kill).

10/ Any IDEAS??

Yeah ... a wizard could do the exact same thing. I don't see this as a psion-only issue.

ECTO PUPPET
11/ this is a crazy power for 2nd level. Do you attack with the constructs scores?

Yes (and I don't even want to think about Trigger Power abuse), and the construct uses it's own attack bonus. (The control is not as "direct" as the flavor text indicates.)

12/ can you use the constructs psionic abilities?

The construct can use it's psionic abilities, if it has any.

PS please don't use incarnate. It's too easy to break on it's own.

 

[ZR]

1 cubic yard is massive

Please one of you imperial users confirm that 1yard is 90cm.....
If so 1 cubic yard is a massive amout of material.
i.e 1cubic yard of water is 730kg
stone would be 1500 to 3000kg ....I am sorry but that gotta hurt.


"It's easier to just climb the ladder"
This was a very mundame example of what is an infinitly flexible power. Lets say I am at the bottom of a 100 foot cliff I think with a minimal amount of thought I could get that char to the top if the "magnus" method was allowed.


I agree with the reflex save, I would alway assume that you would give one.

I would hate to even begin to calculate how many masterwork longbows greated fabricate would make.

How many trillions of gp in gems they could cut!

ecto pupet.....well 3pp to get a Vii construct with concussion or stomp seems a wee bit broken

 

[ZR]

Ment to say to the top of the 100 foot clif in a round or two

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

"It's easier to just climb the ladder"
This was a very mundame example of what is an infinitly flexible power. Lets say I am at the bottom of a 100 foot cliff I think with a minimal amount of thought I could get that char to the top if the "magnus" method was allowed.

Yes, it's quite flexible. You could also, however, use fly, astral construct [number with the flying menu choice, or dimension door for the same number (or fewer) power points.

IMO, with the psion's extreme specialization, it's nice that they have a workhorse power.

Having said that, I'm not sure how good WotC is at making economy-busting spells and powers.

I might be wrong, but could I burn down some trees, gather the ash and turn it into diamonds?

 

[ZR]

with the psion's extreme specialization, it's nice that they have a workhorse power.

I agree.

extreme specialization....This is how I justify the ectoplasm thing. As you specialize and grow as a psion or p/warrior a lot of the powers stack in increasingly powerfull ways.

As you know I plan to play the char and wanted to get a "sanity check" befor playing it.

I am the current DM and will pass the game over to another DM for a period while a side adventure is played out. During this time I will play the Psion and don't want it to appear totaly warped.

FABRICATE
You would have to have to develope a CARTEL with others. Or possibly do it in secret. I think that maybe people who openly developed and exployted the fabricate/craft ability (be they psionc or magic) would be assasinated unless protected/ owned/ confiscated by a celestial or other power. You would be like the goose that lay the golden egg.

what about the sculptue skilll and the construct.....Although you would need to stick to the A/B/C powers. How far can they be sculptured.....what about the colour etc?
How cool is it to whip up a dragon...your own replica.....a characature of your worst enemy or another party member.

 

[pingpong]

check the errata on the PsiHB for some interesting changes.

for one, the cost on Ectopuppet has been changed to "the cost of the Astral Construct being emulated +2", so an AC IX manifested through Ectopuppet would cost 19. keep in mind, this is the powers base cost and isnt subject to the metapsionics cap from page 23 (unless your DM wants it to be).

as for skills to be used in the creation of an Astral Construct, heres my personal opinion:

Craft: Sculpture gives you the basic shape youre going for, but the construct still looks shiny/ectoplasmic. in my opinion, the shape shouldnt confer any effects on the construct that it doesnt already have. just because you gave it wings, it shouldnt necessarily be able to fly (unless you take that Menu choice).

Disguise would give the fine details you want, like hair, color, clothes, etc...

Perform is used to make your constructs act the way you want them to. theyre still limited by being a construct though (i dont think they can speak, they have no intelligence....)