D&D 5E Is "Mystic" a bad class name?

[Mercule]

Strongly dislike "Mystic". Never minded "Psion", but I can see the argument about pseudo-science. "Psychic" isn't completely clean, but it's more neutral and still gives an immediate conceptual meaning.

To me, "Mystic" has the sound of a lightweight Cleric or some other divine caster. I really can't think of a word that's less appropriate without wandering into the absurd. It's like renaming the Thief/Rogue to Duelist or Swashbuckler and trying to pretend it's the same thing.

 

[Greg K]

And Pathfinder already called dibs on the name "psychic".

I don't think Pathfinder has dibs on anything. Green Ronin, it used it back in 3.0 before Pathfinder even existed.

(edit: I see [MENTION=3867]Dragonhelm[/MENTION] beat me to it)

 

[Greg K]

Green Ronin beat Paizo to it.

The Psychic's Handbook

Excellent book, btw.

Yep. I consider it the best take for any version of D&D. It will be the standard by which I judge 5e's take.

 

[77IM]

I guess I don't understand why anyone would want to include the psion in the game but not want to call it the psion. It's like, "I want my campaign to include firearms, but that term is too modern, so I am calling them boom-sticks." Or maybe, "I'm converting Expedition to the Barrier Peaks to 5e, but reskinning it so that it's not an alien spaceship. It will be like a crashed Netherese sky-castle or something." Or perhaps, "This month's UA presents the Dark Sun Campaign Setting in a fresh and new way: as a desert region of the Forgotten Realms."

D&D has a long legacy of weird sci-fi stuff and the psion is a big part of that. Trying to make it fit better in a standard fantasy setting by renaming it "mystic" totally misses the point: the inclusion of psionics means the setting is no longer standard fantasy.

 

[Jester David]

Green Ronin beat Paizo to it.

I don't think Pathfinder has dibs on anything. Green Ronin, it used it back in 3.0 before Pathfinder even existed.

And I'm sure there's a 2nd Edition AD&D product with a kit labeled "psychic" in it somewhere.
But Paizo is putting out a book with a "psychic" class this year, so D&D is likely wary about doing the same within a few months of Pathfinder. It's too soon for overlap.

 

[MoonSong]

Wizard, sorcerer and warlock are all synonyms - and could encompass a D&D bard, druid or even ranger - but the game gives them a precise meaning. I don't see Mystic being any different.

My problem is the possible confusion and double duty this class might bring. Mystic is very close to Dragonlance, so having a Mystic class having both psions and dragonlance mystics will water them down, and if it doesn't cover DL mystics there is lots of room for confusion.

They have different etymologies, yes, but not different meanings in contemporary English.

If we retreat to etymologies, then paladin must mean one of Charlemagne's peers, and druid would just be another form of forest-y wizard.

And mystics and sorcerers would be the same (knowers of secrets, possessors of oracular knowledge), which would support psions being a sorcerer sub-class!

Because "psi" was coined for (para/pseudo-)science in the 1940s, as an abbreviation for "psychic" which was itself coined in the second half of the 19th century.

MMMM, possibly good... anyway they having different origins talks of different origins, different flavors and different details, synonyms aren't exact 1-1 conversions.

The term ‘psion’ is very sciency. From current scientific speculation, a science fiction writer proposed the term ‘psionics’ in 1952, as a kind of blend of ‘psychology’ and ‘electronics’.

Earlier in 1942, the Greek letter ‘psi’ was already used as an initial, a technical term to refer to ‘psychic force’ and related parapsychological phenomena.

Whence: psi + -onics.

Psion is to psionics as electron is to electronics.

Thank you, good to learn that, not that big onto European and "first world" mysticism, most of what I know is local tradition and experiences. Psychic and Psion always felt like fantasy, kinda weird, but at home in D&D. Science fiction is also not my cup of tea, and most of the time they go for even more strange terms than plain psychic/psion like the esper.

And part of this all is tradition? I mean if it is supposed to be a Psion update why not call it Psion? Why use a name that was already used in two different contexts and is very closely linked to DL with a more divine flavor, won't that make psion fans feel marginated? it feels like another case of "change so haters like it at the cost of the fans". Do we need yet another flavor of magic? if Psion is a no go why still call the source Psionics? at which point does it stop being a rose by another name and starts being something completely different?

 

[Remathilis]

And I'm sure there's a 2nd Edition AD&D product with a kit labeled "psychic" in it somewhere.
But Paizo is putting out a book with a "psychic" class this year, so D&D is likely wary about doing the same within a few months of Pathfinder. It's too soon for overlap.

Champions of the Mists, which was for the Ravenloft setting. It gave you limited object reading, with a downside that tragic irons could invoke fear or horror checks. Fun kit for Gothic settings.

 

[pemerton]

I guess I don't understand why anyone would want to include the psion in the game but not want to call it the psion.

<snip>

D&D has a long legacy of weird sci-fi stuff and the psion is a big part of that. Trying to make it fit better in a standard fantasy setting by renaming it "mystic" totally misses the point: the inclusion of psionics means the setting is no longer standard fantasy.

I like "psionics" as a form of magic that is neither god-based nor spirit-based nor ritual/formula based, but rather meditation/concentration based. "Psions" are in the same broad club as monks and X-Men telepaths. They are often bald, and they touch their fingers to their heads when casting spells. In Rolemaster, this sort of magic is called "Mentalism".

For me, the "weird sci-fi stuff" is an irrelevant part of the class and the system, that I ignore when it is present. In the AD&D PHB Appendix 1, that weird sci-fi stuff was really present only in a handful of discipline names: Cell Adjustment (for healing), Molecular Agitation (for heating/igniting objects), Molecular Manipulation (weakening objects) and Molecular Rearrangement (transmuting metals). In many cases, the disciplines just re-used spell names: Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, Detect . . ., ESP, Invisibility, Levitation, Telekinesis, etc; and AD&D 2nd ed turned some abilities that existed only in psionics (eg Domination) into spells.

There was also the use of Freudian psychological terms to both label and explicate the attack and defence modes, but that is not weird sci-fi!

 

[Chocolategravy]

"Mystic" is as good as the sawed-off grossly unbalanced "class" it's the name for.

 

[Jester David]

Champions of the Mists, which was for the Ravenloft setting. It gave you limited object reading, with a downside that tragic irons could invoke fear or horror checks. Fun kit for Gothic settings.

Gha! As a huge Ravenloft fan I should have remembered Champions of the Mists. I feel shame.